Converting popular settings to Infinite Worlds

[David Johnston]

Originally Posted by transmetahuman

I don't have the books to hand, but are you sure? Socially, yes, the Amberites considered the Courts to be equals, but I don't remember the Logrus

The Logrus was not mentioned as such, but if Chaos was not a metaphysical power, then I don't see how the Lords of Chaos would even manage to get to Amber to threaten it. They have to have some ability to move through Shadow.

[William]

Originally Posted by transmetahuman

I don't have the books to hand, but are you sure? Socially, yes, the Amberites considered the Courts to be equals, but I don't remember the Logrus or any other metaphysical indications that would preclude the Courts just being another pocket of Chaos with historical (and geneological) ties to the Amberites. The way I see it, Chaos churned away, created the Courts - which would soon have passed, unstable as anything of Chaos. Before that happened, though, Dworkin ran across the Unicorn (another random throw of Chaos' dice) and drew the Pattern, which stabilized things all the way out to the Courts. Just the way I see it, and of course I could Make It So in my game, but it'd be neater if none of that was contradicted by anything in the first 5 books.

The way Dworkin tells it, and reasonably supported in other happenings, is that the Courts came first, a long time first. Dworkin, a native of the Courts, was out meditating on the abyss or some such, when he made contact with the Unicorn and drew the Pattern. This caused Shadow to arise, containing the first Shadow which is the city of Amber.

Dworkin's mad in peculiar ways, of course, so take this as you would any other creation myth, but I believe it's the gist of the first Amber series' take on events. And there's some elaboration in Merlin's five books.

[Xenarthral]

Originally Posted by tratclif

Howard-1 [GURPS Conan], ca.10,000 B.C.

Personally, I'd be inclined to simply call any "Conan-based" myth parallels
(and many other fantasy parallels similarily "favouring" barbarians)
Conan-(number).

After all, the names of parallels are technically supposed to be somewhat
descriptive of the parallel in question (or how they diverged), aren't they?

Simple calling it Howard-(number) would raise a number of questions
ranging from "Howard who?" to "Which Robert E. Howard character mythic
parallel is this? Conan (and which one/when)? Solomon Kane? El Borak?
Steve Costigan? etc.".

[nerdvana]

How would anyone work in the Lovecraft parallels? :)

[David Johnston]

Leviathan is already a Lovecraft parallel. That they don't recognise it, suggests that Homeline never had a Lovecraft.

[Ed the Coastie]

If I get a chance, I will fish out my notes for a campaign that I created that placed the lands of Witchworld in the Pacific Northwest of the Horseclans setting. With a bit of work and low mana replacing psionics, I think I can justify making it an Alternate...probably with the POD being something arcane in the late 19th and/or early 20th Century that put a rather effective end to the Great War. (Weird War I?) Not sure what I would call such an Alternate, though

[Xenarthral]

Originally Posted by nerdvana

How would anyone work in the Lovecraft parallels? :)

Well, In the Walls of Eryx should work in a Lucifer-5-type
pulp space opera parallel...

Originally Posted by David Johnston

Leviathan is already a Lovecraft parallel. That they don't recognise it, suggests that Homeline never had a Lovecraft.

No, it's sort of Lovecraftian but not an actual Lovecraft myth
parallel. Not any more than Yrth is a Tolkien parallel.
Unless, of course, you can name the Lovecraft story it mirrors
- it does not appear to have been included in the H.P. Lovecraft
Omnibuses in my possession.

On the other hand, one should not assume that those who first
discover, explore or name a parallel are familiar with the "source"
if it happens to be a myth parallel or, in many possible cases,
would even notice.
Conan and Discworld myth parallels would be pretty easy to identify
(even if their present date means that Conan (etc.) are not actually
around any longer/yet), but, for example, Biggles, Kamikaze Kaitou
Jeanne and Pippi Longstocking myth parallels could easily be listed
as "mere" close parallels (or even echoes) unless someone actually
runs into the characters in question.

As for a Lovecraft parallel, here's what I've done (I haven't actually
used it yet and chances are I never will):
a) Thinking of it from a local's perspective rather than Infinity's.
b) start with what is essentially a 1920s close parallel/echo
c) give it an extensive pocket multiverse (cf. Azoth-7), inhabited
by various Lovecraftian thingies
d) give the Earth a fluctuating and uneven Mana level - most of
the time, it's No Mana, but when The Stars Are Right the mana
in the places relevant to whatever The Stars Are Right for increase
enough for a suitable person to use an appropriate spell to summon
the great whatever to Earth
e) name the parallel Arkham

( f) leave it to Infinity (and the Cabal) to work out if the thingies
are an actual threat to other parallels, and when, where and for
what the Stars Are Right next)

[CraigR]

Originally Posted by William

The way Dworkin tells it, and reasonably supported in other happenings, is that the Courts came first, a long time first. Dworkin, a native of the Courts, was out meditating on the abyss or some such, when he made contact with the Unicorn and drew the Pattern. This caused Shadow to arise, containing the first Shadow which is the city of Amber.

Dworkin's mad in peculiar ways, of course, so take this as you would any other creation myth, but I believe it's the gist of the first Amber series' take on events. And there's some elaboration in Merlin's five books.

Like the fact that what the Amberites call the Jewel Of Judgement is known to Chaos as the Eye Of The Serpent, which Dworkin stole from the Serpent Of Chaos (a being as old, Primal, and immortal as the Unicorn) in order to draw the Pattern. It was pretty well implied by Dworkin that the Jewel literally was the Serpent's eye, and that, should it ever get hold of it again (Dworkin's words), "The world as we know it will come to an end."

In short stories written by Zelazny shortly before his death, it was established that there are places and objects that are as "real" as Amber or the Courts, and even older than Amber or the Pattern (but not the Jewel of Judgement).

In the Merlin books, the royals from both Amber and Chaos refer to the area beyond the Courts as "The Rim", suggesting the Pattern is just the center of a vast "island of stability" (continent of stability?) and the Courts are the outer edge of it. The Logrus may or may not have been created to stem the tide of Order the Pattern generated.

[elShoggotho]

Martian-X could be a group name for the various War of the Worlds settings. One where the Martians were defeated by our microscopic allies while invading the British Isles in 1898, one where the same thing happens in the US, forty years later, one where it happens in present day, one where the Martians were actually beaten by the British, one where the British Empire seized the Martian technology and took over the world before carrying the war back to Mars...

[tratclif]

A reply to multiple posts (actually getting a job will cut into my gurps forum time I see):

Originally Posted by Xenarthral

Personally, I'd be inclined to simply call any "Conan-based" myth parallels
(and many other fantasy parallels similarily "favouring" barbarians)
Conan-(number).

I was reacting to the careful phrasing that Ken Hite used on p. 151 of Infinite Worlds. SJGames has said that world of Conan exists somewhere in the Infinite Worlds, but I'm guessing that licensing and intellectual property concerns would prevent them from ever printing anything about "Conan-1."

Originally Posted by nerdvana

How would anyone work in the Lovecraft parallels? :)

According to Ken Hite, Professer Headley comes from "Reality Arkham", one of the things left on the cutting room floor from the Infinite Worlds manuscript.

Edit:Professor Headlley is from the Iconic Characters chapter in Basic: Characters.

Originally Posted by David Johnston

Leviathan is already a Lovecraft parallel. That they don't recognise it, suggests that Homeline never had a Lovecraft.

Actually, there's a long history of SF stories about invasions from beneath the sea. I'm not sure which one was the immediate inspiration for Leviathan.