I love America. America has made my fortune.

[Anders]

Code of Honor (Omerta): "Whoever appeals to the law against his fellow man is either a fool or a coward. Whoever cannot take care of himself without police protection is both. It is as cowardly to betray an offender to justice, even though his offences be against yourself, as it is not to avenge an injury by violence. It is dastardly and contemptible in a wounded man to betray the name of his assailant, because if he recovers, he must naturally expect to take vengeance himself."

-10? -15?

[vicky_molokh]

More like -5 to -10, depending on strictness of adherence. IMHO.

[Johnny1A.2]

Originally Posted by Asta Kask

Code of Honor (Omerta): "Whoever appeals to the law against his fellow man is either a fool or a coward. Whoever cannot take care of himself without police protection is both. It is as cowardly to betray an offender to justice, even though his offences be against yourself, as it is not to avenge an injury by violence. It is dastardly and contemptible in a wounded man to betray the name of his assailant, because if he recovers, he must naturally expect to take vengeance himself."

-10? -15?

-15 for someone who really follows it. It imposes some serious potential disadvantages for someone who follows it in both spirit and letter.

Of course, it would matter what kind of person held it. A person who held that code, but lived a non-violent, ordinary sort of life where it rarely came into play, for him/her it might be worth only -5. It might even be no more than a Quirk.

For someone who is reasonably likely to have it come into play, -15 is reasonable for serious adherence.

[Anders]

I should add that the title of the thread is the first words in the Godfather. Perhaps not everyone gets that. :D

[Johnny1A.2]

Originally Posted by Asta Kask

I should add that the title of the thread is the first words in the Godfather. Perhaps not everyone gets that. :D

I caught it.

The thing is, gaming-wise, adherence to this code, over time, by someone in a position where it matters much, can easily be lethal. It also limits various tactical options against rivals, and limits your ability to deal with the law when you get nabbed. The obligation of revenge also means you may have to start more trouble even after the first trouble is over, with the associated risks (plus the risk of still more cycles of payback from the other side even if you succeed).

To really follow the code is a high-cost proposition. That's why real-world organized crime generally doesn't follow it.

[aesir23]

I think it depends pretty heavily on the society.

In modern, Western society police are readily available, competent, and numerous. They are potentially very useful. -15.

In rural Southern India, where I'm living right now, police are few, underfunded, and hard to contact unless you're at a train or bus station, or near their headquarters. When offenders are brought to justice, it is often by a mob of civilians who physically detain the subject until police can be reached. Police aren't much of an asset, but it's still expected that they'll be involved if a crime (especially a violent crime) is committed. -10

In many other times and places (the old west, the middle ages, post-apocalypse Australia), there simply isn't organized law enforcement in every town, and people are used to handling things themselves or relying on mob justice. -5.

If you also won't rely on your friends, neighbors, and family for help, it could easily be -15 in all societies.

[Anders]

It's in the U.S. during Prohibition. Anachronistic?

[Opellulo]

Originally Posted by Asta Kask

I should add that the title of the thread is the first words in the Godfather. Perhaps not everyone gets that. :D

Sorry for the OTish reply.
I know, it's only a GURPS discussion over a movie based disvantage but I'm really uncomfortable with the heavy fictionalized romantic mafia portrait in the Godfather trilogy, all the rituals and codes that became a common trope in crime dramas (latest example the Tio Salamanca character in Breaking Bad).

I think the Godfather-like omertà code is a big fat Hollywood lie: a way to make criminal characters romantic leads.

In a less fictionalized way you could see it like a reputation bonus for made men (Follower of the code +2 "-10% Always show in public how strict you are") or a delusion for low level henchmen "The code is real".

[Johnny1A.2]

Originally Posted by Opellulo

Sorry for the OTish reply.
I know, it's only a GURPS discussion over a movie based disvantage but I'm really uncomfortable with the heavy fictionalized romantic mafia portrait in the Godfather trilogy, all the rituals and codes that became a common trope in crime dramas (latest example the Tio Salamanca character in Breaking Bad).

I think the Godfather-like omertà code is a big fat Hollywood lie: a way to make criminal characters romantic leads.

Quite correct. Or rather, it's an exaggeration so huge that it verges on being a lie. Hollywood loves the Mafia, or rather the idea of it. Like other idealized fictions, their portrayal has little to do with reality. The 'honorable mafioso' is no more real than the cowboys portrayed by John Wayne or the ecologically aware sensitive New Age Amerinds of post-70s Hollywood.

Certain elements of how the underworld and organized crime operates do sort of reflect that idealized assumptions of the code, but of course the reality is shabbier, nastier, and quite unRomantic...and pragmatism tends to dominate.

As a general kind of thing, codes and habits like that tend to turn up when law enforcement is unable or unwilling to operate, or when for some reason a group has reasons to resist such operation, even when it's in their short-term interest. The results are unromantic, however.

[AmesJainchill]

Originally Posted by Opellulo

Sorry for the OTish reply.
I know, it's only a GURPS discussion over a movie based disvantage but I'm really uncomfortable with the heavy fictionalized romantic mafia portrait in the Godfather trilogy, all the rituals and codes that became a common trope in crime dramas (latest example the Tio Salamanca character in Breaking Bad).

I think the Godfather-like omertà code is a big fat Hollywood lie: a way to make criminal characters romantic leads.

In a less fictionalized way you could see it like a reputation bonus for made men (Follower of the code +2 "-10% Always show in public how strict you are") or a delusion for low level henchmen "The code is real".

Absolutely. Puzo is a great author, but his portrayal of the Mafia is heavily fictionalized.

I totally agree with your reputation/delusion idea. I could easily see "Reputation -1 "Thinks he's in a goddamn movie", other mobsters.