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Old 05-11-2018, 09:31 AM   #31
Ulzgoroth
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Default Re: How to give fatigue points more meaning?

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Originally Posted by Gollum View Post
I don't believe that AlexanderHowl think that. But between a death march and a holiday journey, there is a great leeway. Just look at movies, novels, TV series ... Do the heroes always have time to rest as much as they want?

The only way to make Fatigue Points meaning is to put characters in some situations when they are exhausting themselves ... if only from time to time.

Most of us already do that in his daily life.
"Lost sleep should be a big factor for FP loss in any adventure. If you allow your characters a full night of sleep during a mission, it is a vacation, not an adventure. Instead, they should sleep a maximum of six hours a night, meaning that they start suffering from major problems after a week."

That's pretty straightforward about this being a broad imperative, not a suggestion for how things could be to make FP more relevant.

And while that may not sound like a death march, plenty of people in the real world live that way. But in GURPS, six hours of missed sleep and 18 hours awake means losing 2 FP per day that you are not getting back for the duration. With a fun collection of extra penalties when, a few days in, that's knocked off half your FP.

You don't start suffering major problems after a week. You're basically narcoleptic around day 5. At a week you'd be literally dying (slowly), except you've almost certainly broken from the sleep deprivation schedule unless it's being externally enforced.
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Old 05-11-2018, 10:18 AM   #32
Anaraxes
 
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Default Re: How to give fatigue points more meaning?

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Originally Posted by Ulzgoroth View Post
plenty of people in the real world live that way.
Something like 10-15% of the population have at least two levels of Less Sleep.
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Old 05-11-2018, 01:18 PM   #33
Gollum
 
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Default Re: How to give fatigue points more meaning?

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Originally Posted by Ulzgoroth View Post
"Lost sleep should be a big factor for FP loss in any adventure. If you allow your characters a full night of sleep during a mission, it is a vacation, not an adventure. Instead, they should sleep a maximum of six hours a night, meaning that they start suffering from major problems after a week."

That's pretty straightforward about this being a broad imperative, not a suggestion for how things could be to make FP more relevant.
I read it just as an example of adventure: a military mission. And for a military mission, 6 hours a night is a high average.

I lived worse during my military service, and it was just training.
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Old 05-11-2018, 02:47 PM   #34
AlexanderHowl
 
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Default Re: How to give fatigue points more meaning?

I agree. When I served in the USN, we were lucky to get six hours a night during deployment. In fact, I do not think that I get more than six hours a night during the week since I left the USN, but I always make up for it on the weekends.
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Old 05-11-2018, 04:04 PM   #35
Ulzgoroth
 
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Default Re: How to give fatigue points more meaning?

Again, yes, it's entirely feasible for (many, if not all) real people to run on six hours or perhaps even less for extended periods.

GURPS characters outright can't do it unless they've got Advantages that completely obviate the ill effects.
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Old 05-11-2018, 04:18 PM   #36
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Default Re: How to give fatigue points more meaning?

But it is a really cheap mundane advantage. For 8 CP, your character can get by on 4 hours of sleep a night, meaning that your character can get 25% more done with their life.
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Old 05-11-2018, 04:27 PM   #37
Ji ji
 
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Default Re: How to give fatigue points more meaning?

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Originally Posted by Boge View Post
I don't believe I've ever had a character get dangerous on fatigue points. It rarely comes into play, and if it does, it's easily remedied with rest.

We've tried to implement Extra effort rules, but even with that, combat doesn't last long enough for 10 fatigue to become worrisome.

We don't play incredibly close attention to diet and sleep, but we do account for it if someone misses a night of sleeping. Otherwise, like I said, combat fatigue regenerates quickly enough to where it's not really a factor. Oh, none of us ever really touch on magic. We would only ever do that in a fantasy campaign, but I personally am not interested in magic usage.

I'm guessing there is something we're missing? How can we make fatigue more of a factor?
In my group we have an HR that, in our opinion, better imitates fatigue. For lost FPs over one half your total, recovery time is one FP per 12 hour. This makes wonders; players are much more careful with effort and rest all the time, and the game gets much more fun in hard times.
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Old 05-11-2018, 04:28 PM   #38
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Default Re: How to give fatigue points more meaning?

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. I'm guessing there is something we're missing?
Well... youíre not making a big deal of FP then wondering why FP arenít a big deal.

Thatís pretty much it.

If you track water consumption, food consumption. equipment loads, armor, sleep, etc, etc they become very important.,. But you have to track all of that.
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Old 05-11-2018, 04:39 PM   #39
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Default Re: How to give fatigue points more meaning?

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Originally Posted by Anaraxes View Post
Something like 10-15% of the population have at least two levels of Less Sleep.

...and a large portion of the population functions while short a few FPs.

Every single person who posted that they miss sleep during the week them sleep on on weekends is doing exactly that

In the Army being a tank crewman isn’t the most physically demanding job normally... but with 25% security, one man per crew awake, IF you were scheduled for 8 hours you got 6... and for two guys that was broken up 4/2 or 2/4 with a 2 hour watch in between... sometimes you got 6 or 4... which translates to 4 or 3 or none if the enemy decided to get frisky.

A week of that, on top of sleeping on or in a tank to begin with, and you were dragging.

Longest I’ve gone without sleep is just over 72 hours, and we were dead. Falling asleep standing up, falling asleep driving to the assembly area... one whole crew was so zonked they drove into the corner of a mud brick house and just kept going. Didn’t even realize they did it.

So, a few nights of reduced sleep with maybe one night of no sleep... and then having extended operations ... combat efficiency falls off fast

Last edited by tanksoldier; 05-11-2018 at 04:53 PM.
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Old 05-11-2018, 04:51 PM   #40
Ulzgoroth
 
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Default Re: How to give fatigue points more meaning?

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Originally Posted by AlexanderHowl View Post
But it is a really cheap mundane advantage. For 8 CP, your character can get by on 4 hours of sleep a night, meaning that your character can get 25% more done with their life.
Sure...but if you have that then your 6 hours a night 'adventure' schedule isn't going to do anything at all to make FP a concern.

There's no gap between 'you are going to burn out in less than two weeks' and 'there is zero downside to running on this little sleep indefinitely'.
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Originally Posted by tanksoldier View Post
...and a large portion of the population functions while short a few FPs.

Every single person who posted that they miss sleep during the week them sleep on on weekends is doing exactly that
If you've got more than 10 FP and are only running a very little short on sleep, that's possible without serious impairment per GURPS. A little more short, and you're going to collapse by Friday.

EDIT: And if you don't get to make up sleep on the weekend you are flat out not going to make it to the next one.
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