Why GURPS?

[Andrew Hackard]

Originally Posted by CharlesGriswold

Plus there's the fact that class/level based system rub me the wrong way.

Whereas when I play, which isn't nearly as often as I would like, I love class/level systems. I also love GURPS. There's plenty of room for different types of games in the hobby, just like there's plenty of room for different play styles, and there's nothing inherently better or worse about any choice*. It's all a matter of opinion.

(Yes, this means that I rather fervently dislike the kinds of fans, some of whom have posted here, who feel it's necessary to lob insults at the people who enjoy games they think are inferior. Keep it civil, you goobers.)

* Unless you're playing F.A.T.A.L. and enjoying it. Then, you're a reprehensible person and should be removed from the gene pool for the good of the species. But that's about a six-sigma outlier; the vast majority of games and gamers are inoffensive.

[nik1979]

one of the nice things about gurps is not too abstract
d20 is a system of heavy abstraction... as such you can translate the rules in anyway that would satisfy your reasoning...

Such as the fighter in lava... with the abstraction rule you can say that he landed on a unmelted rock and the heat is killing him as the rock slowly sinks beneathe his weight.

as an abstraction you have alot of holes.

gurps allows for more specific details... details that help us all (especially gms) tell the story how it is without having to create an abstraction that can bite us from behind... such as the number of holes i made with the idea how he is survivng the damage :P

I for one like gurps... cause itsn harder min/max. It good to be in a system that give rules lawyers a better challenge than d20. when you see a min maxed gurps character (one that is well rounded and with a good story, background, and a SOLID rational why are his attributes so) than a d20 charcter which almost anyone else can do. :)

[stilleon]

Originally Posted by Andrew Hackard

* Unless you're playing F.A.T.A.L. and enjoying it. Then, you're a reprehensible person and should be removed from the gene pool for the good of the species. But that's about a six-sigma outlier; the vast majority of games and gamers are inoffensive.

Does this mean there will be no GURPS: F.A.T.A.L. in the future? Frankly this is a shortsighted decision on the part of SJ Games. Perhaps you can ad some of that realism into GURPS: Fantasy. When I'm playing Lord of the Rings GURPS I think I need to know just how much strain the "inputs" on elfs and hobbits can take!

[Rupert]

Originally Posted by cmdicely

GURPS has a skill modifier for peripheral uses of the skill in the resolution system (the main skill rating is used for the primary uses), and D20 has an attribute modifier for all uses of the attribute. The GURPS skill modifier is an extra rating that adds flexibility, the d20 Attribute Modifier is an extra number that adds nothing except rough consistency with legacy (pre-3E) stat levels.

This is not quite true. Odd numbers are used for feat prerequisites. Strength uses the whole range. Wishes can add single points, and stat damage uses the whole range. But yeah, like Hero D&D3 uses the range it does primarily for legacy reasons.

[Rupert]

Originally Posted by CharlesGriswold

1) Rolling d20 vs 3d6 gives unrealistic results.

I think they wide range gained from using a d20 is intentional. With a tighter range it would be very difficult to have as broad a range of power levels as D&D does without extremely cut-and-dried results when characters of differing levels interacted (it's bad enough now).

2) You have to add more numbers when you roll, vs. when you calculate skill levels. Rolling 3d6 under (skill level +- modifiers) is easier to calculate on the fly than (d20 + skill level +- modifiers) over (some target number +- modifiers)

IME the number of modifiers come out about the same. Yes, D&D does tell you that some things adjust DC and others the roll, but in practice you only do this if there's something you (as GM) are hiding from the players - otherwise just slap everything on the roll and compare with the base DC.

[garyb]

Originally Posted by stilleon

When I'm playing Lord of the Rings GURPS I think I need to know just how much strain the "inputs" on elfs and hobbits can take!

I'm going to pretend I don't know what that means... lol

[maximara]

Originally Posted by roguebfl

nope not fague at attully:

Table: Difficulty Class Examples

Difficulty (DC)
Very easy (0)
Easy (5)
Average (10)
Tough (15)
Challenging (20)
Formidable (25)
Heroic (30)
Nearly impossible (40)

So Ride 12 is an above avarage rider.

Except that a 12 in GURPS is NOT the same as a 12 in DnD. Thanks to the bell shaped curve a 12 in GURPS has (barring modifiers) a 74.1% of success. That is the equivalent doing "average" with DC 16! (ie beyond tough). In GURPS 14 is considered an expert and a master is 20. Furthermore as long as effective skill is above 3 you have a 1.9% chance of success ie the 'Nearly impossible' above.

I would like to point out the examples the DMG 3.5 (pg 31) gives of 'heroic' are quickly climb a slick brick wall, reading ancient draconic, and picking a good lock; tasks well within the ability of an GURPS character with the relavant skill in the expert range (14-16).

Also the examples the PHB provides are all over the place. We told that the task of identifing a substance or potion of a DnD alchamist is DC 25, a GURPS alchemist has a base 50% of due either - hardly a 'Formidable' task. Craft is simalarly messed up because the ways DnD classifies stuff.

[roguebfl]

Originally Posted by maximara

Except that a 12 in GURPS is NOT the same as a 12 in DnD.

note no said they where the same thing, I was pointing out the the number i9s not "meanless"

[maximara]

Originally Posted by Ian Wright

Vaguely defined? The skills have lists of DCs, every piece of operational equipment has DC listings, combat and athletic DCs are all listed... And D20 isn't the only game system out there to say meet or beat a 'challenge number' of some sort.

Except there is little logic to what action fits what DC which why I say they are vaguely defined. As far as the rank 4/skill 12 comparison goes that is what both system use - in DnD you talk about the rank you have with a skill (and there are limits on what ranks you can have based on your level) while in GURPS despite the floating attribute aspect you still talk about skill level.

Riding 12 (DX) is far more useful at determining the over all skill of a character than Riding 4 ranks, modifier of +2. The GURPS character has a base chance of 74.1% success but since the examples of DCs in both the DMG and PHB are all over the place with little logic to them we just don't know how good a rank 4 resulting in a +2 modifier is.

[cmdicely]

Originally Posted by Andrew Hackard

* Unless you're playing F.A.T.A.L. and enjoying it. Then, you're a reprehensible person and should be removed from the gene pool for the good of the species. But that's about a six-sigma outlier; the vast majority of games and gamers are inoffensive.

Hey, come on. At least the playing-and-enjoying-FATAL people, presuming they exist, are better than the playing-and-enjoying-RaHoWa players.