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Old 01-29-2009, 05:19 PM   #11
Figleaf23
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Default Re: Lifting water with TK

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Originally Posted by Rocket Man
Yep. One of the classic examples (for superstrength, not TK) is when the ultra-strong Golden Boy decides to step in front of a speeding car and have it bounce off his chest, "just like Superman." He gets knocked flying because 1) He's not heavier than the car and 2) He's not moving faster than the car. Moral of the story: When using strength or TK, always ask which laws of physics are in effect.
That's an excellent example of where I apply the concept of Skill in your Power. I'd roll secretly vs the character's Skill in her Power to determine if she knew enough to brace herself correctly.

Last edited by Figleaf23; 01-29-2009 at 07:00 PM.
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Old 01-29-2009, 05:30 PM   #12
Kelly Pedersen
 
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Default Re: Lifting water with TK

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Originally Posted by Figleaf23
Two, surely!?
If you want to carry two things, then I'd limit you as if you were picking them up with a pair of hands. So you can carry one sheet of glass no problem, as long as its under your weight limit. But if you want to pick up two sheets, your TK is going to start behaving like a pair of hands instead of a simple lifting force, and now you're going to have to worry about where you can grab the sheet without breaking it.
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Old 01-29-2009, 05:36 PM   #13
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Default Re: Lifting water with TK

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Originally Posted by capnq
When the Turtle tried to deliver some obsolete shells to the Joker Museum, he had to visualize them joined together by a triangular frame to pick them up.

I don't remember whether he had to visualize a bucket to pick up the water.
He visualized a giant pair of cupped hands - water even leaked out from between the hands. It's the scene I immediately think of when this TK and water question comes up on here - it's almost a perfect fit, theoretically. But it underscores one of the problems I have with taking the "two hands" part of TK's description too literally - what size hands are we talking about? What if the character with TK is a pixie? Or a space whale? The Turtle used really, really big hands; can anyone with TK do that in GURPS? I can't remember what his GURPS Wild Cards write-up had, and anyway that was for 3e so won't be relevant - but I have to wonder if that exact passage influenced the 4e definition.
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Old 01-29-2009, 05:45 PM   #14
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Default Re: Lifting water with TK

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Originally Posted by Figleaf23
Does the 'pair of hands' have your SM, or the SM appropriate to the TK ST?
Define "appropriate to the TK ST" - the closest thing to a chart linking ST and SM is the Growth chart, and I'd say that's really not applicable to the question - it's specifically about size changing. Giants have whatever ST the GM wants them to have - appropriate values vary, as per the page long discussion in GURPS Fantasy, according to the "hardness" of your campaign environment.

Superman has a very very large ST, and SM 0 hands. An elephent has ST 45 and no hands - I'd be hard pressed to assign a "virtual hand SM" to the elephants trunk. Various tiny-sized heroes have had strength ranging from "trivial" to super strengthed.
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Old 01-29-2009, 05:47 PM   #15
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Default Re: Lifting water with TK

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Originally Posted by transmetahuman
what size hands are we talking about? What if the character with TK is a pixie? Or a space whale?
I'd say that TK's "hands" are, by default, SM 0. So a pixie's hands are exactly as big as a space whales. However, I'd allow an enhancement to increase the SM of the hands. +5%/+1 SM sounds about right. Maybe +10% if you can vary the SM between 0 and whatever maximum you've bought.
For negative SM, I'd probably just make it a 0% modifier to have small TK hands, or just a flat +10% if you can vary the size between 0 and, say, -10.
If you assume, as I do, that when you're lifting a single object, your "hand size" is irrelevant anyway, then the extra hand size is really only handy when you're grappling opponents, since bigger creatures get a bonus there.
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Old 01-29-2009, 06:48 PM   #16
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Default Re: Lifting water with TK

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Originally Posted by Kelly Pedersen
If you want to carry two things, then I'd limit you as if you were picking them up with a pair of hands. So you can carry one sheet of glass no problem, as long as its under your weight limit. But if you want to pick up two sheets, your TK is going to start behaving like a pair of hands instead of a simple lifting force, and now you're going to have to worry about where you can grab the sheet without breaking it.
Okay, but if the teke wants to pick up a bat and a baseball, I'm gonna let him.
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Old 01-29-2009, 06:50 PM   #17
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Default Re: Lifting water with TK

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Originally Posted by Bruno
Define "appropriate to the TK ST" - the closest thing to a chart linking ST and SM is the Growth chart, and I'd say that's really not applicable to the question - it's specifically about size changing. Giants have whatever ST the GM wants them to have - appropriate values vary, as per the page long discussion in GURPS Fantasy, according to the "hardness" of your campaign environment.

Superman has a very very large ST, and SM 0 hands. An elephent has ST 45 and no hands - I'd be hard pressed to assign a "virtual hand SM" to the elephants trunk. Various tiny-sized heroes have had strength ranging from "trivial" to super strengthed.
The principle is that ST=HP=>SM unless separate adjustments are made.

A giant has big hands, so why wouldn't someone with giant-scale TK ST have giant scale TK 'hands'?
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Old 01-29-2009, 06:54 PM   #18
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Default Re: Lifting water with TK

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Originally Posted by Figleaf23
Okay, but if the teke wants to pick up a bat and a baseball, I'm gonna let him.
Sure. You can do that in two hands. You just can't pick up 8 baseballs, or four bats, or something.
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Old 01-29-2009, 06:59 PM   #19
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Default Re: Lifting water with TK

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Originally Posted by Figleaf23
The principle is that ST=HP=>SM unless separate adjustments are made.
Er, no, that's not the case. You can be SM 1000, and still have ST 10, if you want. You get a discount on high ST, it's true, but you never have to take it. And you do have to pay points for it.
And, more importantly, the other end of the equation is true even less often. High ST rarely equals high SM - there are lots of fantasy species, robots, aliens, spirts, or what have you that are SM 0, but have ST scores far higher than human.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Figleaf23
A giant has big hands, so why wouldn't someone with giant-scale TK ST have giant scale TK 'hands'?
They could, sure. But they'd have to pay for it separately from the raw ST. For TK, higher SM is pretty much an unmitigated advantage, so you need to spend points on it. In GURPS, it doesn't matter if two traits are commonly found together. You still have to pay the points for both.
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Old 01-29-2009, 07:05 PM   #20
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Default Re: Lifting water with TK

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Originally Posted by Kelly Pedersen
Er, no, that's not the case. You can be SM 1000, and still have ST 10, if you want. You get a discount on high ST, it's true, but you never have to take it. And you do have to pay points for it.
And, more importantly, the other end of the equation is true even less often. High ST rarely equals high SM - there are lots of fantasy species, robots, aliens, spirts, or what have you that are SM 0, but have ST scores far higher than human.
Humans are the baseline. If you buy ST 11, you get HP 11. HP are cognate with the size of the body. This is RAW.

Quote:
For TK, higher SM is pretty much an unmitigated advantage, so you need to spend points on it. In GURPS, it doesn't matter if two traits are commonly found together. You still have to pay the points for both.
Unless it's included.
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