Magic book(s) recommendations

[gsquid]

Hi friends,

I was a tremendous GURPS 3rd Ed. enthusiast as a teenager, and now as an adult with too much time on my hands, that enthusiasm (that never really died) has reared up again. I've decided to take the 4th Ed. plunge, but here is the problem: I peruse the website and there are about 50,000 books I desperately want to own! Someday, they will be MINE, ALL MINE!!! But..... that is a far-off someday. Meanwhile, I need to seriously prioritize, and that is why I am seeking your advise--on a specific question, as well as I welcome any feedback in a more general, open-ended way.

So, obviously I'm gonna need Basic Set (Characters). I'll pick up Campaigns in the not-too-distant future, but since I'm abandoned by my friends and society in general, I'm mostly interested in character creation for now, I'm not really going to be running any campaigns for the foreseeable future.

I'm interested in several niche genre books (including a few 3rd-Ed.-only books). I actually delight in adapting not-entirely-compatible source material, and I won't be using any of my old 3rd Ed. books to start fires in my woodstove. But what I am interested in is getting the up-to-date core rules into place (I've read up and they seem very sensible revisions, except that I refuse to give up 1/2 pts.). Virtually every campaign setting I'm likely to imagine will include at least some magic, and most likely tons of magic, with a ton of variety in magical systems (e.g., spell magic, ritual magic, cleric magic, mysticism, circles symbols and runes, innate powers, psionics, I could keep going.....).

So, it seems natural that, after Characters, I would pick up Magic.... but looking at the table of contents for Characters, it appears to do a pretty decent job covering magic to begin with (and maybe Psionics, too). I'm wondering if maybe I'd be better off making due with Characters for the time being, so as to invest in one of the other 50,000 I'm eyeing. I'm wondering if maybe I'd be better off with Characters and Thaumatology? And, instead of Magic, maybe I'd pick up Powers, which might expand my core capacity to build complex, dynamic, often fantasy comic-book-style magical worlds (and to populate them). OK, this is a highly subjective question; feel free to weigh in if you want. For me, what it hinges on is whether the spell list in Characters is the same or abridged as compared to that in Magic? I like to build really elaborate grimoires, and it would be frustrating to dive right into Characters and then have all my hard work up-ended when I discover I was working from a significantly incomplete reference source, upon eventually acquiring Magic. I've downloaded the Spells flowchart pdf, which I suppose I could compare to Characters since I'll be getting that book no matter what, but I want to get this show on the road, save on combined shipping, etc., not to mention I'm interested to know what people think generally, about these books that have the potential for significant overlap in subject matter. I just thought of Fantasy, too, drat, another book I have to research then inevitably lust after.........

Thoughts? Apologies for my lack of brevity.

David

[Minuteman37]

Thaumatology>>>>>Magic unless all you want is more premade spells for the basic set magic system.

Powers is core set part 3 and should be purchased as such.

Martial arts should be buy number four unless you abstain melee combat.

After that pick up the Tech book for the time period you're most interested in.

They get progressively better as they were made thought. So Low-Tech is a fantastic read and I've legitimately seen collages recommend it as additional reading for their history courses. High-tech is a solid book and a bench mark for quality. Ultra-tech is constantly brought up along with magic (yes the one you wanted to buy) as a book that needs to be thrown out and given a second edition. Though it does give you some good ideas as far as making games set in the future go, I wouldn't recommend it as a must buy unless you REALLY want to have a far flung sci-fi game.

[ericthered]

I'd pick up powers as book number 3. Thaumology is good, and Martial arts is useful, but for building characters, its hard to beat powers. People do or don't like gurps magic around here, and its one part of gurps that's changed the least since 3rd edition (or so they tell me).

[(E)]

Give the campaigns book a bump up the list. Basic magic in 4e gurps is quite similar to 3e so I would suggest putting it down a line or so on your list.

[Fred Brackin]

Go through Characters for a while before you buy anything else. I expect that you'll hit enough references to material in Campaigns that you'll find you need that next.

4e Magic is mostly 3e Magic + Grimoire. Characters is giving you about 100 spells from 11 or 12 Colleges. It comes a lot closer to being workable by itself than 3e did but if you really like 3e magic you'll want 4e Magic eventually. There are relatively few major changes thouhg.

Buy Powers eventually but I do not recommend it as your #3 book. It's ahs advanced bits and pieces for building things with Advantages, Enhancements and Limitations but it's really building on the bread & butter of Characters. I'd make it like book #5 or 6 myself.

Thaumatology s a big magical grab-bag. It's got a lot of extra options for basic set Magic but it has major variants such as what used to be "Unlimited Mana" and is now "Threshold Magic". Then there's what used to be "Ritual Magic" from Voodoo and Spirits but is now expanded into "Path/Book Magic". Expanded versions of what used to be "Noun/Verb Magic", "Improvised Magic" from 3e Magic and "Sphere Magic" which is similar to what used to be in Gurps:Mage the Ascension..Then there's a chapter on building magic items as gadgets. It's a big book and really full of good stuff.

Ultra-tech has some typos in the weapons tables but is quite solid otherwise. Very useful for gaming in the TLs it covers. You'll want Bio-tech to go with it.

Low Tech has a little bit of errata worthy stuff too but is otherwise very interesting (and it has .pdf "companions" too). I'm afraid it may be a little bit specialized if you're not up in arms about the historical accuracy of Basic Set armor and things like that.

High tech is nearly perfect and tremendously useful for any gaming in TLs 5,6,7 and 8. Unless you just don't work in those TLs this would be the Tech book I recommend first.

Martial Arts is essential for its' genre but that genre involves highly detailed melee combat both unarmed and with unpowered weapons. I've never actually been in or run games that used this level of detail. Consider your own experiences and preferences.

Those are probably the high spots in full-size hardcovers (and some of them may not be available except as pdfs these days). There are a lot of good things in .pdf only too.

I would recommend Power Ups 2:Perks as the first and most broadly useful of those to get. I might put it ahead of Powers as a near "core" book. Gurps 4e does a _lot_ with Perks. It's become an extremely important concept.

[whswhs]

I really can't imagine running any GURPS game without Campaigns. There are too many things I use all the time.

GURPS Magic is worthwhile if (a) you want to run a fantasy campaign and (b) you want to work with the D&D trope of "wizard as field artillery piece." Well, that's maybe a bit restrictive, there are spells good for a lot of things other than combat, and they cover a lot of things the Basic Set list omits—but they really have a strong "adventurer's toolkit" flavor.

On the other hand, large parts of GURPS Thaumatology work best if you're familiar with GURPS Magic. There are parts that don't—Path and Book magic is one of my favorite things in GURPS—but they're not an entire book's work.

The three books that I think are really useful in terms of expanding the core rules are Martial Arts, Powers, and Social Engineering (which I don't think is entirely me being biased in favor of my own book, though you're entitled to discount that!). Each of them gives you a whole lot of added detail for some particular type of story: MA for detailed combat, Powers for beings with amazing powers, SE for character interaction and relationships.

On the other hand, you can run a perfectly good game without any of them.

Do you have a genre you favor? GURPS has genre books for fantasy, science fiction, horror, supers, and mysteries; but also, if we know you like a particular genre, we can point you at supplements that are really useful for that genre.

[gsquid]

Wow, thanks everyone for your suggestions! They are very helpful.

I already have Martial Arts 2nd Ed. (for GURPS 3rd Ed.). I wonder if this is sufficient? Again, I am not afraid to adapt older material, I think it's kind of fun! But in addition to updating the rules to 4th Ed., they also seem to put in a lot of effort to improve newer editions..... so how should I know!

As for genre books....... I already have a bunch for GURPS 3rd Ed. (since I have all my old books still!).

Aforementioned Martial Arts
Steam Punk
Space
Cyberpunk
Bloodlines
Cabal
Fantasy
Fantasy Folk
Bestiary
Dragons.... I'm at a library computer right now so dunno if I'm forgetting any!

And then, just now, like a fool, I spent $150 on eBay buying 9 more (to save on shipping, ya know):

Russia
Espionage
Time Travel
Robots
Swashbucklers
Screampunk
Middle Ages I
Arabian Nights
Spirits ...*****so if any of these books are garbage, I don't wanna know!!!
:~)

I also have Magic for GURPS 3rd Ed., but since magic is more of a "core rules" kind of situation, that's why I'm potentially interested in updating. I feel like I ought to have owned Grimoire, but if I did, I haven't seen it in a while. Maybe I just wanted it. I've read that the new Fantasy book is a lot different from the older edition (which was more of a world book than a genre book), so that's why I'd consider updating that one, too.

This probably gives you a sense of the genres I favor.... which are diverse!

Down the line, I'm also intrigued by:

Horror (for GURPS 4th Ed.)
Zombies (for GURPS 4th Ed.)
Undead
Fairies
Various places and historical settings books
Any recommendations for post-apocalyptic?
Low-Tech etc. sound good to me
The Dungeon Delvers pdf series and Action 1-4 (I prefer physical books, tho)

...And then I scroll down the GURPS Worldbook Index, and I feel like I could add 20 more titles (easily)........ Yeah, I'm a nerd. Like you're not! :~)

If you look thru my list and were waiting for me to mention an essential title, feel free to endorse any of your favorites! Otherwise, you have served me well and honorably, your work here is done! :~)

David

[David Johnston2]

Before you decide whether or not to get Magic 4E, ask yourself, "Do I have Magic 3E"? If you do then you've got enough to work with. Magic 4E does have new stuff in it, but I'd get Magical Styles first (if you've got Magic and maybe Grimoire to work with) unless you feel like exploring the other magical systems of which GURPS has plenty. Martial Arts is a really good book for your meat shields. Imbuements can enhance both Martial Arts and any Mage who wants to play with missile spells. Powers is an excellent book for anyone who who want to build their magicians with advantages. Especially since it's the one that includes illusion creation.

[gsquid]

Thanks again for all the help and suggestions!

Also, I want to apologize that my last post degenerated into book "have" and "want" lists! I feel like this could be perceived as kind of an obnoxious breach of forum etiquette (not that I'd know.... I'm new here and don't really have any pertinent forum experience to draw upon). It wasn't my purpose when I set out.... but I feel like I was more or less encouraged in this direction. Entrapment! :~)

David

[lachimba]

Originally Posted by (E)

Give the campaigns book a bump up the list. Basic magic in 4e gurps is quite similar to 3e so I would suggest putting it down a line or so on your list.

Of the two basic books, campaigns is IMHO the better written and more useful.