09-25-2017, 05:48 PM | #11 |
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Buffalo, New York
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Re: historically becoming landed as a small fry
As promised...
This "manor" has 1870 acres for the Lord to enjoy/administer to. HD size is number of people in the house (family), serf acres were land held by serfs and owed obligations on. Serfs could rent extra land in addition to their obligatory family land. If I were to ever run a GURPS HARN campaign via FG2, this is what I'd be using. Code:
Family Tenant HD Skill Serf Free Labor Rent Rent Notes ID Occupation Size Acres Acres Days Kind Fees ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1 Priest 3 9 0 45 0 0 0 Owes Lord 1/2 Glebe Revenues 2 Villien 6 11 32 0 128 60 38 3 Cottar 3 13 1 0 4 60 7 4 1/2 Villien 4 12 19 0 76 60 25 5 1/2 Villien 6 12 20 0 80 60 26 6 1/2 Villien 4 12 11 0 44 60 17 7 Woodcrafter 3 12 0 10 0 60 16 Business fee = 120d 8 Villien Plus 3 12 33 25 132 210 39 9 Villien 7 10 35 0 140 60 41 10 1/2 Villien 2 9 12 0 48 60 18 11 Villien 5 9 34 0 136 60 40 12 Yeoman(LF) 3 14 0 14 0 60 20 Owes Military Service 13 Villien Plus 5 10 28 30 112 240 34 14 Charcoaler 5 13 0 30 0 60 36 Business fee = 180d 15 Cottar 4 12 3 0 12 60 9 16 Yeoman(LB) 4 14 0 49 0 60 55 Owes Military Service 17 1/4 Villien 3 11 7 0 28 60 13 18 Hideworker 6 13 0 5 0 60 11 Business fee = 144d 19 1/4 Villien 2 12 6 0 24 60 12 20 Cottar 4 14 2 0 8 60 8 21 Villien 4 12 38 0 152 60 44 22 Cottar 4 9 4 0 16 60 10 23 1/2 Villien 11 9 12 0 48 60 18 24 1/2 Villien 9 9 13 0 52 60 19 25 Villien 7 11 40 0 160 60 46 26 1/4 Virgate Farmer 4 10 0 8 0 108 14 27 Villien 9 12 29 0 116 60 35 28 Villien 8 9 24 0 96 60 30 29 Small Farmer 5 12 0 5 0 90 11 30 1/4 Villien 6 9 5 0 20 60 11 31 Small Farmer 2 12 0 4 0 84 10 32 Villien 8 14 29 0 116 60 35 33 Metalsmith 4 10 0 30 0 60 36 Business fee = 144d 34 1/2 Villien 6 11 13 0 52 60 19 35 1/2 Villien 2 9 16 0 64 60 22 36 1/2 Villien 9 10 20 0 80 60 26 37 Miller 4 10 0 20 0 60 26 Business fee = 240d 38 Villien 6 13 30 0 120 60 36 39 Salter 3 12 0 15 0 60 21 Business fee = 120d 40 Timberwight 10 11 0 10 0 60 16 Business fee = 216d 41 1/4 Villien 11 10 6 0 24 60 12 42 Yeoman(LH) 3 10 0 62 0 60 68 Owes Military Service 43 1/2 Villien 2 11 11 0 44 60 17 44 Yeoman(MF) 3 13 0 22 0 60 28 Owes Military Service 45 1/2 Villien 3 11 11 0 44 60 17 46 Villien 3 12 28 0 112 60 34 47 Villien Plus 3 12 21 5 84 90 27 48 1/2 Villien 9 11 19 0 76 60 25 49 Cottar 2 10 3 0 12 60 9 50 Small Farmer 2 14 0 2 0 72 8 51 1/2 Villien 6 13 19 0 76 60 25 52 Cottar 2 13 2 0 8 60 8 53 1/4 Villien 9 12 5 0 20 60 11 54 Cottar 4 9 4 0 16 60 10 55 Cottar 5 10 2 0 8 60 8 56 Yeoman(LF) 3 9 0 19 0 60 25 Owes Military Service 57 1/2 Villien 2 9 19 0 76 60 25 58 Yeoman(MF) 3 13 0 22 0 60 28 Owes Military Service 59 1/2 Villien 4 12 12 0 48 60 18 60 Villien 4 12 29 0 116 60 35 61 Villien 4 13 22 0 88 60 28 62 Villien 7 10 40 0 160 60 46 63 Cottar 2 9 5 0 20 60 11 64 1/2 Villien 3 9 13 0 52 60 19 65 1/2 Villien 4 10 19 0 76 60 25 66 1/4 Villien 11 9 5 0 20 60 11 67 Villien 7 9 37 0 148 60 43 68 Small Farmer 2 10 0 5 0 90 11 69 1/4 Villien 2 13 10 0 40 60 16 70 Villien 6 12 32 0 128 60 38 71 1/2 Villien 4 11 13 0 52 60 19 72 Cottar 2 11 1 0 4 60 7 73 1/2 Villien 5 14 15 0 60 60 21 74 Small Farmer 2 11 0 3 0 78 9 75 Cottar 3 13 3 0 12 60 9 76 Cottar 3 11 4 0 16 60 10 77 Yeoman(LF) 5 10 0 16 0 60 22 Owes Military Service 78 1/2 Villien 3 14 14 0 56 60 20 79 Villien 6 13 30 0 120 60 36 80 1/4 Villien 3 9 8 0 32 60 14 81 Cottar 6 13 3 0 12 60 9 82 Virgate Farmer 7 14 0 29 0 234 35 83 GM Choice 5 9 0 0 0 0 0 GM Choice 84 Villien 3 14 34 0 136 60 40 85 Cottar 11 12 2 0 8 60 8 86 1/2 Villien 3 11 15 0 60 60 21 87 Cottar 11 10 4 0 16 60 10 TOTALS 416 978 1036 485 4144 5796 |
09-25-2017, 08:58 PM | #12 | |
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Wellington, NZ
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Re: historically becoming landed as a small fry
Quote:
Also, there were people who paid rents, but who weren't entirely free to leave the land. These situations and others could result in extended legal battles over whether someone was free or not, and sometimes they'd be counted as free for some purposes and unfree for others.
__________________
Rupert Boleyn "A pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history." |
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09-26-2017, 09:50 AM | #13 | |
Join Date: Jul 2006
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Re: historically becoming landed as a small fry
Quote:
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09-26-2017, 11:58 AM | #14 |
Wielder of Smart Pants
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Ventura CA
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Re: historically becoming landed as a small fry
Note that in GURPS this is pegged to Control Rating, at least in Matt's excellent Pyramid articles on farming and land management.
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09-26-2017, 11:58 PM | #15 |
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Estonia
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Re: historically becoming landed as a small fry
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09-27-2017, 05:35 AM | #16 | |
Join Date: Jul 2006
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Re: historically becoming landed as a small fry
Quote:
In a very low CR society, you might well spend most of your time trying to stop people squatting on your land. |
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09-27-2017, 08:45 AM | #17 | |
☣
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Southeast NC
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Re: historically becoming landed as a small fry
Quote:
Of course, it's likely almost none of these transactions are in coin. The difference in providing grain to rent land and working land in exchange for a cut of the grain is subtle.
__________________
RyanW - Actually one normal sized guy in three tiny trenchcoats. |
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09-27-2017, 07:20 PM | #18 |
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Wellington, NZ
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Re: historically becoming landed as a small fry
It's not unlikely that those transactions had values measured in money, though. While many forms of service and many benefits were paid in various goods and rights/obligations, many also had a money value attached. They generally weren't paid for in actual coin, but rather accounts were kept and every so often they were settled up (likely annually, after the harvest), sometimes with actual coin, sometimes with goods to the value of the net debt. This is also how fines tended to be managed.
__________________
Rupert Boleyn "A pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history." |
09-27-2017, 08:56 PM | #19 | |
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Buffalo, New York
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Re: historically becoming landed as a small fry
Quote:
As for real life? If a serf decided they wanted to purchase land, and could find someone willing to sell them land, what happened was that they'd agree to the transaction with the other serf, and BOTH had to approach the lord to ratify the agreement. This usually involved a court fee on the lord's part, and both parties to the transaction not only had to make their transaction occur with the blessing of the lord, but had to agree to the contractual obligations to the Lord himself. For example, Old Widow Gisele holds 15 acres of land. She agrees to sell 10 rods of land to her neighbor for the sum of 2 shillings. She owes a given service to her Lord for the 15 acres of land, but if she separates 10 rods of land forever (as far as her children and grandchildren etc car concerned) then she's essentially modifying her contract with the Lord. If she still owes the same labor and obligations as before, she's got less land to show for it. If on the other hand, her neighbor agrees to assume some form of obligation - then THEIR contract with the lord is amended as well as hers, and now they owe not only the money paid to Gisele herself, but also to the Lord. This is in addition to the fee they paid to have the Lord ratify the change in contract. So, can you purchase land per se? Sort of. Can you purchase land from a free holder who doesn't OWN land, but rents it from his Lord? Nope. All he can do is sub-rent the land at best, paying the renter some money to use the land he's willing to let him use at a high enough fee that the renter who originally held the rent agreement with his lord, isn't losing money. Note too - that the custom of the manor in one manor might say X, but the custom of the manor at a manor located a mere 5 miles away might have a subtle variation. Some laws weren't even standardized - which is why "custom of the manor" has weight. It has a form of "unwritten law code" if you will that was no less and no more binding than written laws might be. Maybe the custom of the manor specifies that before a contract can be finalized, not only does the Widow have to agree, but her first born son also has to agree, as he is the one who stands to suffer (or gain) by the transaction. In yet another, the custom may be that a woman may not sell any portion of her holdings at all, while in yet another manor, it could be something odder yet. Who knows... ;) |
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09-28-2017, 03:13 AM | #20 | |
Join Date: Jul 2006
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Re: historically becoming landed as a small fry
Quote:
After a while - in agriculture and in military matters - landowners started to prefer cash to service. |
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