Finding out a Human's # of forces & potential...

[naraht]

How do Celestials figure out how many forces a Human has and what their potential is? For Angels, I think that Seraphim of Creation can do at least some of this, but I'm not sure for Hell. My question is that it appears that *bad* things happen in trying to make a Mummy out of a Human that is at the maximum number of forces and while Saminga wouldn't mind that much, it is a waste of resources...

I would imagine that a Calabite of Death would have a pretty easy time determining # of Corp Forces, but much beyond that???

[Archangel Beth]

I forget the ways -- but I know for definite it was addressed in the Corporeal Player's Guide! O;>

[Dalillama]

Seraph of Creation, Divine Destiny, and Fated Future are the only canon ways to identify potential Soldiers who have not yet achieved a 6th Force. (CPG p54) Since demons with Fated Future aren't all that common, demons usually just find people with the right attitude and either put them through Hell on earth until they die or gain another Force, or else do an Oathtaking, which will get them either a Soldier, a mummy, or a corpse, and demons don't care which, usually.

Originally Posted by naraht

My question is that it appears that *bad* things happen in trying to make a Mummy out of a Human that is at the maximum number of forces and while Saminga wouldn't mind that much, it is a waste of resources...

I believe you're thinking of Oathtaking (CPG p 28). If a demon performs an Oathtaking ritual on someone who's at max Forces already, they die. If the demon knows necromancy, they can try at this time to make a Mummy, which will have 1 more Force than the mortal did, as Mummies always do. (CPG p.91). So, if a demon (Or sorcerer who knows necromancy) is deliberately trying to create a mummy it doesn't matter how many Forces the mortal has; on a successful roll, they'll wind up a mummy with one more Force. However, demons don't usually bother making anyone a mummy who hasn't got at least 5 Forces already.

[Rocket Man]

As far as finding out how many Forces a mortal already has, any Kyriotate or Shedite who's able to possess them will know immediately. If the mortal is Symphonically aware (rare, but it happens), there's still something else you can try ... make a little noise (Disturbance) and see if they react. Any aware mortal will have at least 6 Forces.

(Or, I suppose, it's possible you've spotted a vampire or zombi, but that's useful to know, too.)

[JCD]

You know, I believe Eli was in a Radisson Hotel in Bangkok and he used this scale there as well as his...uh...companion. He got curious and now the thing only gives very ODD readings in Enochian.

Just a thought.

[naraht]

Originally Posted by JCD

You know, I believe Eli was in a Radisson Hotel in Bangkok and he used this scale there as well as his...uh...companion. He got curious and now the thing only gives very ODD readings in Enochian.

Just a thought.

Hmm. That would be an interesting Artifact(?) for Eli to create. A bathroom scale that measures # of forces/potential forces.

Questions that would need to be answered about the artifact. How does it deal with
a) Superiors (with Lilith as a special case?)
b) Kyriotates, I guess would measure the number of Forces that the Kyriotate is devoting to the possession.
c) Shedites, Forces for the human, the shedite or bounce between both (which of course leads to the question of can you tell if you have a 7-force shedite possessing a 7-force human) (It isn't Balseraphim, but is Shedim?)
d) Humanity always causes an answer of five, unless a child vessel, I guess.

[Dalillama]

Originally Posted by naraht

(It isn't Balseraphim, but is Shedim?)

Yes, it's Shedim. And I'm not at all sure why it's not Balseraphim; it should be.

[Rocket Man]

Originally Posted by Dalillama

Yes, it's Shedim. And I'm not at all sure why it's not Balseraphim; it should be.

Of course, if you're going to be a linguistic stickler, the singulars for certain Choirs should be Ofan, Malak, and Eloah, following the example of Cherub and Seraph.

[Dalillama]

Originally Posted by Rocket Man

Of course, if you're going to be a linguistic stickler, the singulars for certain Choirs should be Ofan, Malak, and Eloah, following the example of Cherub and Seraph.

No, if Shedim is the correct plural of Shedite, then Ofanite and Malakite are perfectly acceptable. Elohite is a special case, as the singular of Hebrew Elohim is El or Elo depending on the gender of the god in question. So that's clearly not a good singular form for things that aren't gods, so we may as well go with Elohite.

[Rocket Man]

Originally Posted by Dalillama

No, if Shedim is the correct plural of Shedite, then Ofanite and Malakite are perfectly acceptable.

Actually, in Hebrew, the proper singular would be "Shed," pronounced "Shade."

See, you knew they were shady characters. ;)

EDIT: Agreed totally on the Powers, by the way, though the plural presents similar problems -- "Elohim" is how the Hebrew Bible traditionally refers to the God. In writing, my own preference is to stick to the grammatically-incorrect "Elohites." (Except when submitting a manuscript to SJG, of course.)