Using street children in ceremonial magic [Magic/Thaumatology]

[AlexanderHowl]

The economy tends to improve dramatically in situations of widespread ceremonial magic, at least in areas with decent populations and low to high mana levels. Agrarian Magic effecrively triples food production, allowing for a tripling of the population. Continual Light allows for the lighting of the entire cities, extending productive hours and facilitating security. Shape Earth allows for the creation of good roads with one-tenth the effort, which facilitates trade and transportation. Cold can create massive amounts of ice for refrigeration and refreshmenrs. Other spells have other consequences that start to dramatically change society

Imagine an ice production facility. With 100 ceremonial participants, a mage with Cold-15 can freeze 16 cubic yards of water every 20 minutes, meaning that they can freeze 288 cubic yards of water every day. A cubic yard of ice can provide refrigeration for 10 households for a week, so that one team can provide refrigeration for a city of 50,000 people without difficulty.

[Plane]

maybe 17s always being crit fails always at high school makes people more hesitant to do this?

Even 18s being crit fails could induce hesitancy for a lot of magic unless you had Stable Casting: if it's a roll per 100 cubic yards then every 21,600 of Shape Earth you do have some demon coming along to turn the street children against you?

[Prince Charon]

Originally Posted by Plane

maybe 17s always being crit fails always at high school makes people more hesitant to do this?

Even 18s being crit fails could induce hesitancy for a lot of magic unless you had Stable Casting: if it's a roll per 100 cubic yards then every 21,600 of Shape Earth you do have some demon coming along to turn the street children against you?

I tend to assume that the really bad results from a critical failure table are something that only occurs when casting under stress, and thus that routine spellcasting doesn't have them. Also, depending on the setting, it may be possible to permanently enchant a structure so that the 'signal' that summons a demon (or other opposing being) on a critical failure simply doesn't go out. So, you can have the other crit fail results, but not evil spirits showing up to attack you, or being pulled into a mystical otherworld, or similar.

[AlexanderHowl]

A 17+ followed by an 18 has a ~1:10,000 chance of occurring. If we take the example of ice production, we are talking about a facility that likely does 3 castings per hour, 7 hours a day, 250 days a year, for a grand total of 5,250 castings per year, meaning an accidental summoning of a demon every other year. Since each casting turns 16 cubic yards of water into 17.6 cubic yards of ice, the annual production is 92,400 cubic yards, which is 71,600 short tons of ice per year.

If we assume that a Status 0 household uses 2.4 short tons per year of ice (400 lbs of ice per month) and that it would be worth it for them to spend 5% ($30 per month) of their cost of living on ice to help preserve their food, the revenue generated would, the value of the ice would be $150/short ton. Assuming the 80% of the revenue is captured by delivery and marketing costs,, taxes and fees, water cost, etc., that is still a revenue of $1.9 million per year for the facility. If the participants make $1,000/month and the magician and makes $5,000/month, that leaves $640,000/year. A squad of 10 demon hunters, each making $2,000/month, would cost $240,000/year, leaving $400,000/year. The fact that demons occur once every two years is a minor annoyance.

[David Johnston2]

Originally Posted by Prince Charon

I tend to assume that the really bad results from a critical failure table are something that only occurs when casting under stress, .

That's an assumption that should only be made when you actively want an industrial magic setting. In the rules as written magic is always high stress by intent. It's the reason why mining for iron is still a thing and powerful wizards tend to be reclusive and their domiciles are given a wide berth.

[AlexanderHowl]

As I noted above, even when you have the potential form demons, a prepared society really has nothing to worry about. The default demons of Magic can be dealt with by a squad of properly prepared guards. A demon fighting squad would likely have axes, crossbows, and shields.

For example, a demon appears because of a critical failure. The guards would be ready for trouble towards the end of the ceremonial spell and the five of them would be waiting on an an elevated space surrounded the ritual with a ST 16 crossbow (ST 12 fighters using goat's foot to increase their effective ST to 16 for loading) ready with fine and balanced bolts each. If a demon appeared, it would have five crossbow bolts attack it, each dealing 1d+6 impaling damage. With DR 5, the demon would take an average of 9 HP of damage per bolt and, since it possess HP 17 and Fragile (Unnatural), it could only tolerate 2 hits before going poof. If it survived that, it would have to deal with the five guards on the ground with axes and shields.

[johndallman]

Originally Posted by AlexanderHowl

... one team can provide refrigeration for a city of 50,000 people without difficulty.

It's extremely boring work, however, and may be seen as a waste of a reasonably capable magician.

[AlexanderHowl]

Possibly, but a mage does not have to be exceptional to ceremonially cast Cold in a normal mana area. IQ 12, Magery 0, Status 2, Wealth (Wealthy), Ignite Fire-10, Create Fire-10, Shape Fire-10, Heat-10, and Cold-15 is sufficient for such a mage, and that is only a 90 CP build. Heck, in a high mana region, a nonmage with Cold-15 can ceremonially cast the spell, though their personal contribution is capped at 3 FP, though the economics does not change. In a low mana region though, a mage would need Cold-20, so they could ask for $20,000/month, giving them Status 3 and Wealth (Very Wealthy), though the facility could do without the demon killing squad in a low mana area, so the economics would not change any.

Ironically, urban magic becomes safer in low mana regions, so it should actually be more common if the economics work out. If a mage can receive Wealth (Very Wealthy) and Status 3 by specializing in a single spell, there will be steady mage who will invest the time and effort to do so. It might not be exciting, but the lifestyle will help mitigate the boredom. After all, such a magician would be an important person in a city, as its people would would depend on the ice to preserve their foods and to chill their drinks, so they would likely marry well and be invited to the best parties.

[Varyon]

While a continually-present demonic extermination squad for each ceremonial circle is arguably economically doable, I question how effective they'd truly be. In your ice-making example, the squad on average goes nearly 2 years between having anything to do. If you've been working somewhere aiming a crossbow at the same location for over a year with nothing happening, when something finally does happen, it probably takes you by complete surprise. Also, I assume there are results other than "summon a demon on an 18" that are problematic, and you may well be exposing your (extremely bored) crack squad of sharpshooters to some of those results, in addition to your expensive mage and all your FP-providers. Something to consider.

[Rolando]

having a high Banish spell level may be a requisite to be production manager.

Critical failures, on the other hand, is why magic as tech will not change the society as much (in my campaigns). Mages in their guild houses will do all kind of rituals but overall the medieval like city will be mostly medieval, with some perks of having magic and a magician guild supplying some magic as technology here and there.