Ideas for Yrth

[Prince Charon]

Originally Posted by Anders

Megalos could have its own version of the Crisis of the 3rd century, which basically was a 60-some-years long civil war over who got to be Emperor. The Roman Empire even split into three independent parts.

I think a couple of Megalan Civil War options have been mentioned in this thread, so that works.

[Astromancer]

If either Meglos breaks up, or there is a multigenerational civil war in Meglos, there will be a strong tendency for the ban on technological advance to collapse. With all the factions fighting for their lives, they will embrace any advantage they can. And guns will be the least of that.

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by Astromancer

If either Meglos breaks up, or there is a multigenerational civil war in Meglos, there will be a strong tendency for the ban on technological advance.

I assume you mean "for the ban to fail" or some such? Weapons bans rarely survive warfare, unless the banned weapons don't give you enough benefit to be worth the bad PR (e.g. chemical weapons really don't work terribly well for anything but terrifying civilians because they're super hard to aim, hollow point rounds aren't actually very relevant to military use because ordinary jacketed munitions at assault rifle velocities expand just fine).

[TGLS]

Well, the gun ban relies on:
A) Top-down enforcement with relative peace
B) Fear of angering the wizards

There's also the hyper-conservatism of Yrth, but let's leave it aside for a moment.

If Megalos collapsed, A is obvious (at least within Megalos). B may or may not hold together. Early muskets aren't terribly impressive, and fireballs are quite effective at dealing with gunpowder stores.

[Astromancer]

Originally Posted by Anthony

I assume you mean "for the ban to fail" or some such? Weapons bans rarely survive warfare, unless the banned weapons don't give you enough benefit to be worth the bad PR (e.g. chemical weapons really don't work terribly well for anything but terrifying civilians because they're super hard to aim, hollow point rounds aren't actually very relevant to military use because ordinary jacketed munitions at assault rifle velocities expand just fine).

I corrected my error. And if there is a sixty plus year civil war in Meglos, guns and cannon might be cats that permanently escape the bag. If guns get used in the Meglos civil war, then every other power will want/need them. If Al-Wizif loses one battle to Hospitalers with guns, or vice versa, they'll take up the gun. And it would not be possible to get them to put it down. Technological change would be forced by war as in Early Modern Europe. Whatever occult power fights technology on Yrth will fail hard.

[Astromancer]

Originally Posted by TGLS

Well, the gun ban relies on:
A) Top-down enforcement with relative peace
B) Fear of angering the wizards

There's also the hyper-conservatism of Yrth, but let's leave it aside for a moment.

If Megalos collapsed, A is obvious (at least within Megalos). B may or may not hold together. Early muskets aren't terribly impressive, and fireballs are quite effective at dealing with gunpowder stores.

And a shrewd wizard can see how to use artillery and musketeers as well as non Wizards. Improved technology makes Wizards more powerful in subtle ways. A wizards can create spells to protect themselves, and paying customers from bullets.

[TGLS]

Sure. I won't dispute that wizards could respond to the introduction of guns dynamically and potentially see an increase of their power. But as written, Wizards fear the introduction of guns would become their undoing. It even mentions that if one of the rival factions in Caithness started using cannons the wizards may feel obliged to join the other.

In all honesty, the gunpowder ban seems a little like a red herring. Many European states were able to begin centralizing and reducing the power of the nobility through the introduction of standing armies (perhaps driven by advancements in banking). Guns just made it increasingly easy to make larger and larger armies.

Actually, there's an idea. Have the Megalans and the Muslims steadily build up standing armies that end up being shattered in something similar to The Mages' War. Maybe the armies are sophisticated Pike and Mage formations (as opposed to Pike and Shot). This leads to a die back of centralized power in the background to justify why things seem so feudal.

[LoneWolf23k]

I dunno about gunpowder, but I'm definitely interested in the idea of alternate technological development for Yrth, more along the lines of a Dungeon Punk / Magitek setting like Eberron. Which would be doable with a lot more enchanted items.

I'm thinking things like enchanted Airships, Golems replacing Slave labor, magical Telecommunications..

Heck, the Telecommunications alone. Considering items enchanted with Communication technically only cost 800 energy to create, I'd be shocked if Megalos' entire Imperial government isn't linked with Palantir-like crystal balls, allowing Imperial edicts to be communicated across the Empire the day they're issued.

Let's be honest, even without technology, there's no reason a magic-using civilization would stick to Medieval Stasis if they could help it.

[Astromancer]

Here's an idea, Araterre has TL4 ship technology according to the books. So, if Araterre had a period of being less supervised by the throne of Meglos and the Curia the Prince of Araterre might follow the example of Henry the Navigator.

An organized attempt to search for lands beyond Yttarria wouldn't please the powers that be in Yttarria, but Araterre would really benefit. Sailing out to seek new lands would be an epic adventure.

[TGLS]

Originally Posted by Astromancer

An organized attempt to search for lands beyond Yttarria wouldn't please the powers that be in Yttarria, but Araterre would really benefit.

Both of these seem a little dubious; an Araterre that's headed east and south is an Araterre that isn't supporting piracy on the Erythraean Sea or the Mare Medium. And unlike the Portuguese who had a fair understanding of what value could be garnered by finding a route around Africa. Araterre is, "maybe we go east and discover new lands with valuable things?"