The Modern-Day Party: Fighter, Cleric, Wizard, and Rogue

[Mailanka]

Originally Posted by Miles

The standard party is standard for a for fairly tightly defined scenario. It provides a reasonable combination of solutions to the problems encountered by a small group raiding an enemy stronghold with the intention of engaging in combat and stealing valuables, in a world with monsters and fairly common access to supernatural powers.

I agree, and it's a peeve of mine when people try to push D&D onto everything. D&D is not the "standard" RPG, and it doesn't contain some sort of universal truth. Why fighter, mage and thief and not jock, cheerleader and nerd? Or doctor, policeman, fireman? Or command officer, security officer, science officer, medical officer and engineer?

The answer is, or should be, dependent on what you're trying to do. A game about con-artists, for example, might focus on the various arenas and niches where con-artists specialize and where their gameplay might be most interesting.

Pick what you want your game to be about, build the "classes" around that. Don't pick the classes and try to figure out how to make them work in your game (unless it's a game of "Hmmm, how can I give my D&D game some modern-ish tropes?")

[ArchonShiva]

Lately I've taken to watching ensemble cast TV shows and sticking classic fantasy classes unto characters - this is especially fun if the show isn't about an obvious team of operatives.

The Good Wife has Alicia as the Cleric, Cary as the Paladin, Kalinda as the Thief, Eli as the Wizard, Will as the Fighter, Peter as the Bard, Diane as the Druid (for turning into a killer bear).

Sense 8 flirts with Shadowrun archetypes as well, with the cop as Fighter, Nomi as Decker, Wolfgang as Thief, Kala as Cleric, Lito as Wizard (Enchanter), Capheus as Rigger and Riley as Bard.

[Wavefunction]

Originally Posted by Mailanka

I agree, and it's a peeve of mine when people try to push D&D onto everything. D&D is not the "standard" RPG, and it doesn't contain some sort of universal truth. Why fighter, mage and thief and not jock, cheerleader and nerd? Or doctor, policeman, fireman? Or command officer, security officer, science officer, medical officer and engineer?

The answer is, or should be, dependent on what you're trying to do. A game about con-artists, for example, might focus on the various arenas and niches where con-artists specialize and where their gameplay might be most interesting.

Pick what you want your game to be about, build the "classes" around that. Don't pick the classes and try to figure out how to make them work in your game (unless it's a game of "Hmmm, how can I give my D&D game some modern-ish tropes?")

You seem to be rather missing the point of the thread. I specifically mentioned that this was purely for curiosity in order to avoid this sort of reply. I don't care how one should go about deciding what roles a character should fill. The question is: what would you say are the closest modern equivalents to classic fantasy classes?

[Mr_Sandman]

Perhaps grifter, hitter, hacker, thief, mastermind?

I find that in games, the mastermind is more often the investigator, and the hitter could be replaced with a shooter, or there could be a hitter and a shooter. The hacker doesn't always have to be focused on computers, and could be an engineer or a gadgeteer.

[lachimba]

Originally Posted by Mailanka

The answer is, or should be, dependent on what you're trying to do. A game about con-artists, for example, might focus on the various arenas and niches where con-artists specialize and where their gameplay might be most interesting.

Pick what you want your game to be about, build the "classes" around that. Don't pick the classes and try to figure out how to make them work in your game (unless it's a game of "Hmmm, how can I give my D&D game some modern-ish tropes?")

100% agree.
For that matter there's at least one GURPS author who's DF campaign doesn't worry about niche overlap and having each role filled.

And why not? ...
Have the party have different arch types for drama instead of different classes for niche protection.


Eg the pro and anri transhumanist in a THS cops! Campaign.

A cleric from each of the gods with different belufrom each faction in a fantasy campaign.

[Mailanka]

Originally Posted by Wavefunction

You seem to be rather missing the point of the thread. I specifically mentioned that this was purely for curiosity in order to avoid this sort of reply. I don't care how one should go about deciding what roles a character should fill. The question is: what would you say are the closest modern equivalents to classic fantasy classes?

Fair enough. I shouldn't thread-crap, so I apologize. Here's four: Soldier, thief, medic, hacker.

[T.K.]

Well, contrary to what some have said I don't believe the base setup of Fighter, Cleric, Wizard, and Rogue to be a strict definition.

People that believe so might be looking only at the face value of these labels (and have some grudge with D&D definitions) but if we extrapolate from those:

Fighter - The guy that is always on the grit of stuff and get things done. Often times the tactical backbone point.

Cleric - The guy that keeps the part going and provides sustenance. Often times provides supplemental actions normally done by Fighters and/or Wizards.

Wizard - The guy that deals with non-straight tasks. Often times provides information.

Rogue - The guy that manages big deals and/or strategic advantages. Often times provide information.

With that, I believe you can correlate to almost anything if not everything:

A Modern Restaurant

Fighter - The cook
(Cook all the stuff, command the kitchen...)
Cleric - The waiter
(Relay the orders to the kitchen, bring dishes to the clients, check the mood of clients...)
Wizard - The maître
(Deals with clients problems, suggest combinations, reception of special guests...)
Rogue - The sommelier
(Chat with clients to identify their tastes, mood and likings to suggest according wine allowing info to be taken from clients and also to increase profit of the restaurant...)


A cinematic Special Ops Squad

Fighter - The field agent
(Gets into all the gunfights, persecutions, tortured, jailed...)
Cleric - The gun/equipment supplier
(Manage the right equipment in the right place at the right time to reach the hands of the group members...)
Wizard - The hacker
(Grant access to specific places, relay/scout info to the team, identify target points...)
Rogue - The infiltrator/sex appeal/specialized agent
(Perform very narrow, very specific tasks normally of great importance like seduce and acquire fingerprints of target, infiltrate highly harzadous environment...)

A Rock Band structure team

Fighter - The sound technician
(Connects mics, check cables...)
Cleric - The sound table operator/engineer
(Make live corrections to sound channels, ensure correct tunning...)
Wizard - The PR
(Deals with critics, public, internal problems...)
Rogue - The band agent
(makes money and git dem b!tch*s...)

[Wavefunction]

Originally Posted by Mailanka

Fair enough. I shouldn't thread-crap, so I apologize. Here's four: Soldier, thief, medic, hacker.

No problem, sorry if I sounded rather irritable.

Originally Posted by T.K.

Well, contrary to what some have said I don't believe the base setup of Fighter, Cleric, Wizard, and Rogue to be a strict definition.

People that believe so might be looking only at the face value of these labels (and have some grudge with D&D definitions) but if we extrapolate from those:

Fighter - The guy that is always on the grit of stuff and get things done. Often times the tactical backbone point.

Cleric - The guy that keeps the part going and provides sustenance. Often times provides supplemental actions normally done by Fighters and/or Wizards.

Wizard - The guy that deals with non-straight tasks. Often times provides information.

Rogue - The guy that manages big deals and/or strategic advantages. Often times provide information.

With that, I believe you can correlate to almost anything if not everything:

A Modern Restaurant

Fighter - The cook
(Cook all the stuff, command the kitchen...)
Cleric - The waiter
(Relay the orders to the kitchen, bring dishes to the clients, check the mood of clients...)
Wizard - The maître
(Deals with clients problems, suggest combinations, reception of special guests...)
Rogue - The sommelier
(Chat with clients to identify their tastes, mood and likings to suggest according wine allowing info to be taken from clients and also to increase profit of the restaurant...)


A cinematic Special Ops Squad

Fighter - The field agent
(Gets into all the gunfights, persecutions, tortured, jailed...)
Cleric - The gun/equipment supplier
(Manage the right equipment in the right place at the right time to reach the hands of the group members...)
Wizard - The hacker
(Grant access to specific places, relay/scout info to the team, identify target points...)
Rogue - The infiltrator/sex appeal/specialized agent
(Perform very narrow, very specific tasks normally of great importance like seduce and acquire fingerprints of target, infiltrate highly harzadous environment...)

A Rock Band structure team

Fighter - The sound technician
(Connects mics, check cables...)
Cleric - The sound table operator/engineer
(Make live corrections to sound channels, ensure correct tunning...)
Wizard - The PR
(Deals with critics, public, internal problems...)
Rogue - The band agent
(makes money and git dem b!tch*s...)

That's a very interesting way of looking at it, I certainly wouldn't have thought of the Cleric as an arms dealer!

[Donny Brook]

Earth - Cleric
Air - Wizard
Fire - Fighter
Water - Rogue

[Phantasm]

My modern and sci-fi games tend to have: the Investigator, the Muscle, the Face, and the Tech as the four "roles".

The Investigator often has some combination of Research, Criminology, Forensics, Intelligence Analysis, Observation, Electronics Operation (Security or Surveillance), and high Perception.

The Muscle has either a high ST, respectable DX, and melee combat skills, or high DX and a high ranged combat skill with respectable melee combat skills for when things get close, or some mix of the two.

The Face is loaded with social skills and advantages: Diplomacy, Sex Appeal, Wealth, Charisma, Appearance, Fast-Talk, etc.

The Tech is the kind to have Computer Hacking, Engineer, Mechanic, Electronics Repair (any), Gadgeteer, Gizmos, and other similar traits.

Note that it is possible to have folks filling multiple roles; Tech/Investigator, Muscle/Tech, and Face/Investigator are all combinations I've seen in my games.