Real-world examples of Rank 9?

[Kromm]

Originally Posted by Michael Thayne

Is this any different than officers of one unit not giving orders to enlisted in another unit? Presumably the chains of command do converge at some point, though I don't know where exactly that happens.

That's pure "GM's decision" territory – or barring that, something to be determined by an author or other world creator who has phenomenal research abilities, probably including the ability to access members of all the relevant hierarchies across a broad range of ranks. It certainly isn't a rule. Plus in real life, it's subject to a huge amount of custom that isn't written down anywhere . . . an O-2 would be an idiot to try to boss around an E-9, but an E-9 would be savvy enough to respect the O-2 for long enough to screw the O-2's career, possibly forever. Rank establishes who can technically boss around whom; custom determines who can get away with it more than once.

[Willy]

Originally Posted by Kromm

That's pure "GM's decision" territory – or barring that, something to be determined by an author or other world creator who has phenomenal research abilities, probably including the ability to access members of all the relevant hierarchies across a broad range of ranks. It certainly isn't a rule. Plus in real life, it's subject to a huge amount of custom that isn't written down anywhere . . . an O-2 would be an idiot to try to boss around an E-9, but an E-9 would be savvy enough to respect the O-2 for long enough to screw the O-2's career, possibly forever. Rank establishes who can technically boss around whom; custom determines who can get away with it more than once.

Of course same goes for the civilian sector, there is always a distinction between writtten rules and uncodified custom.
Or in the whole society we have a lot of laws who tell you what is forbidden. But there is also a lot of other rules, custom and other stuff, which let´s you drop in the eye of your neighbours a lot, if you do it or don´t do things which are considered necessary standard by the others. The whole morale thing for example.

[Kromm]

Originally Posted by Willy

Of course same goes for the civilian sector

Oh, yes!

A huge, modern nation-state with tens or hundreds of millions of citizens will have a vast web of structures of Administrative Rank, Police Rank, Political Rank, Security Rank, and possibly even Intelligence Rank totally aside from its Military Rank systems. And each of these categories is just a convenient label for a vast range of separate structures; e.g., Administrative Rank is likely to break down into Diplomatic Rank, Judicial Rank, Postal Rank, etc., while each national police service will have its own system of Police Rank. There might be some degree of unification at the very top . . . or there might not be. Good luck trying to determine whether an FBI Associate Executive Assistant Director can get away with making demands of a DEA Advisory Agent, much less an ordinary postman on official USPS business.

I imagine that untangling all of this stuff for just one nation would fill a 50- to 60-page game supplement . . . which would be outdated the day it was published.

My advice to GMs is to give Rank game-mechanical force only within the organization that grants it, and to confine Rank-driven interactions to unambiguous chain-of-command situations involving people one or two levels of Rank up or down from the PC(s). Otherwise, just ignore it on the game-mechanical level. Of course, on the roleplaying level, it's great fun to game out the Police Rank 6 top cop shouting at Military Rank 1 grunts, or a PC with Judicial Rank 3 trying to intimidate a cop with Police Rank 1. The correct game mechanics there are Fast-Talk and Intimidation, though, not Rank-based reaction modifiers or the "pulling rank" system.

[Anders]

So, Kromm, do you have Business Rank? Is there a Rank structure at SJG?

[Kromm]

Originally Posted by Anders

So, Kromm, do you have Business Rank? Is there a Rank structure at SJG?

Not as such, but there is a Table of Organization. It's about five levels tall, with SJ at the top, and has two main branches you could think of as "creative" and "operations" ("everything else"). The top three ranks have almost nobody (Steve > Phil > Sam [creative] & Susan [operations]); the bottom two ranks have most of us. Within the two populous ranks, importance is determined by how relevant your expertise and post are to the question, and where that's a "tie," by years of seniority. I'm one from the bottom (so if it goes from 0-4, I'm at 1, while if it goes from 1-5, I'm at 2), with importance on GURPS matters only, but over 25 years of seniority.

I don't think it'd be worth points. SJ might merit Status 1 as a business owner, but there just aren't enough of us, with enough financial clout, to merit Rank within a business. I suppose I'd have a Trivial Reputation.

[Anders]

Originally Posted by Kromm

I don't think it'd be worth points. SJ might merit Status 1 as a business owner, but there just aren't enough of us, with enough financial clout, to merit Rank within a business. I suppose I'd have a Trivial Reputation.

There's a perk for "trivial Legal Enforcement Power", I guess moderators have that. :o)

[Phantasm]

Having served in a rear-echelon multi-service unit in the US Armed Forces (Air Force in my case), it should be noted that those units have their own internal hierarchy for who can give orders to the lower ranks. You can have a Chief Petty Officer (Navy E-7) and and Air Force Technical Sergeant (E-6) answering to an Army Captain (O-3), with E-1 to E-3 Privates, PFCs, Airmen, Seamen, and Specialists from all branches accepting their orders from NCOs outside their branch.

Permanent versions of such units are set up to make their internal chain of command very clear.

[Þorkell]

Originally Posted by AlexanderHowl

In the USA, Military Rank is odd because of the separate chain of command that exists between the services.

As far as I can tell the US is not unique among western nations in this.

[dcarson]

Higher Rank acts a bit like Status in reactions also. A beat cop has the same Rank authority to tell a postman what to do as the Chief of Police, none. But the fact that someone that high is involved will more often lead to cooperation or at least a fast call to someone higher up in your organization instead of just saying get lost.