"doesn't need to blink" perk?

[Plane]

Aside from the RP aspect of winning all staring contests, I'm wondering what kind of mechanical advantages might result from having eyes that moisturize without needing to close eyelids and briefly obstruct vision.

This is the type of thing we glaze over, and it'd probably be rare where it would matter (like Weeping Angels mockups) but I could see some small advantage to it...

Perhaps someone who opts to not blink should eventually suffer penalties to vision rolls due to progressive dry-eye which can be cured by blinking, but on any second you opt to blink as a free action you are an extra -1 to vision rolls?

[Gold & Appel Inc]

If blinking obstructs your vision you should probably see your doctor. The only stat I would use to represent this trait in an otherwise-human-looking character would be Unnatural Feature (Never Blinks) [-1].

[talonthehand]

Originally Posted by Plane

Aside from the RP aspect of winning all staring contests, I'm wondering what kind of mechanical advantages might result from having eyes that moisturize without needing to close eyelids and briefly obstruct vision.

This is the type of thing we glaze over, and it'd probably be rare where it would matter (like Weeping Angels mockups) but I could see some small advantage to it...

Perhaps someone who opts to not blink should eventually suffer penalties to vision rolls due to progressive dry-eye which can be cured by blinking, but on any second you opt to blink as a free action you are an extra -1 to vision rolls?

When you start to wonder the mechanics of blinking, it's time to take a moment and remember that GURPS is a game, not a reality simulator. If you have too many rules, it'll bog down gameplay till it slows to a complete stop.

[Anaraxes]

Google tells me average time between blinks is around 6 s (2-10), while blink duration is about 125 ms. In other words, 2% less incoming light. You're only going to miss events that take less than 125 ms to occur (total, start to finish). Long enough to affect reaction time (at the bottom end), but hardly seems worth worrying about.

If you want to give some creation better defenses or a Feint bonus or enemy defense penalty thanks to their unimpeded reaction time, then just buy Enhanced Dodge or +1 DX for weapon attacks or give them a Perk for whatever effects you imagine this micro-advantage would have over a baseline human. You can collect several into a meta-trait if you like, to make it clear it's a package deal and a result of physiology.

But I'd start by defining the game-mechanical effects and then buying those, unless you find one without an existing price or way to build it. Paying for a trait like "Doesn't Blink" without a definition seems like an invitation to table arguments about exactly what mechanical benefits someone imagines that feature would have. So just define the mechanics up front and price from that.

[Plane]

Originally Posted by Gold & Appel Inc

If blinking obstructs your vision you should probably see your doctor. The only stat I would use to represent this trait in an otherwise-human-looking character would be Unnatural Feature (Never Blinks) [-1].

I'm talking about someone who doesn't need to blink to avoid the negative effects of not blinking (however one represents that... eyes eventually dry up and begin to water, obstructing vision) not someone who can't shut their eyes.

Originally Posted by talonthehand

When you start to wonder the mechanics of blinking, it's time to take a moment and remember that GURPS is a game, not a reality simulator. If you have too many rules, it'll bog down gameplay till it slows to a complete stop.

It'd be interesting to know for situations where it might come up, like for example if you had an ability which required maintaining eye contact to keep up an effect or to prepare an effect.

Vision-Based, Reversed (part of Sight-Based) if combined with Takes Extra Time or Immediate Preparation Required, for example. That's going to be a problem if giving in to the compulsion to blink causes you to lose your accrued prep time and start from zero.

Originally Posted by Anaraxes

Google tells me average time between blinks is around 6 s (2-10),
while blink duration is about 125 ms.
In other words, 2% less incoming light.
You're only going to miss events that take less than 125 ms to occur (total, start to finish).
Long enough to affect reaction time (at the bottom end), but hardly seems worth worrying about.

Having vision compromised for ⅛ a second could matter against a speedster w/ Altered Time Rate 7 [700]...

or even Altered Time Rate 3 [300] if you're someone with Decreased Time Rate [-100].

Or maybe even some non-ATR w/ Extra Attack 2 (Multi-Strike) using AOA:Double?

Originally Posted by Anaraxes

If you want to give some creation better defenses or a Feint bonus or enemy defense penalty thanks to their unimpeded reaction time, then just buy Enhanced Dodge or +1 DX for weapon attacks or give them a Perk for whatever effects you imagine this micro-advantage would have over a baseline human.

It wouldn't be an advantage against invisible foes, nor make you more agile for landing/evading hits

Originally Posted by Anaraxes

But I'd start by defining the game-mechanical effects and then buying those, unless you find one without an existing price or way to build it.

Paying for a trait like "Doesn't Blink" without a definition seems like an invitation to table arguments about exactly what mechanical benefits someone imagines that feature would have.

So just define the mechanics up front and price from that.

The issue is sort of that I'd need to figure out baseline mechanics for it to ignore:

1) the effects of not blinking over time (people could make Will rolls to do this to win staring contests, for example, at some point blinking becomes and Uncontrollable action, most likely)
2) the effects of actually blinking in briefly reduced vision as your upper/lower field of view narrows (kine of like Tunnel Vision rotated 09 degrees) with a brief moment (even less than 0.125) of actual blindness with the lid utterly closed

I had heard something about Nictitating Membrane offsetting vision penalties underwater (can't seem to find where though) so if someone is forcing themselves to blink less than necessary the "eyes watering" result could explain some penalties from the droplets.

Come to think of it... what sort of critical failure am I rolling on a weekly basis when I get an eyelash in there? That could compromise your effectiveness in battle if it happens at an inopportune moment, especially if you don't have clean hands and a mirror to get it out, which I think we may take for granted in a civilized world.

Maybe we all have Unluckiness (Game Time +0%) [-10] built in to explain at least one thing going wrong per week? Seems reasonable. GMs can multiply that by up to 7 to causes daily problems...

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by Plane

I had heard something about Nictitating Membrane offsetting vision penalties underwater (can't seem to find where though)

Sentence 2 of the description of Nictitating Membrane in Basic.

[Ulzgoroth]

'Staring contests' aside, this mostly seems relevant if your game involves Weeping Angels or similar horror entities that somehow exploit blinking.

[Plane]

Originally Posted by Anthony

Sentence 2 of the description of Nictitating Membrane in Basic.

ah, "see normally", missed that, but I guess I can't remember where to find the -2 to vision underwater, if that was in basic also?

protects eyes from sand/irritants sounds like probably defends you against eyelashes (while UP at least... probably doesn't help if you switch it on AFTER an eyelash gets in?) but I don't know where to find the sand/irritants rules either.

Originally Posted by Ulzgoroth

'Staring contests' aside, this mostly seems relevant if your game involves Weeping Angels or similar horror entities that somehow exploit blinking.

The "only while unobserved" limitation on Warp in Horror for Ghostly Movement comes to mind as one thing. During the millisecond your eyelids are closed during a blink, you're not observing.

This makes Ghostly Movement a lot more dangerous against a single person, because with 2+ people you're not likely to blink in complete unison so during the millisecond of 1 person's closed eyes, another is still observing the Ghostly Mover.

Originally Posted by Toptomcat

This is a perk-level-to-five-point Unusual Background for a rather cheap Immunity in a Dr. Who or SCP game and a zero-point feature with no game-mechanical effect elsewhere.

Even in situations where it's not quite as absolute as "being can only move when nobody is looking at them" the effect of a blink would matter for flash-tier speedsters.

...FORCED TO STARE WITH EYES THAT TAKE A HUNDRED YEARS TO BLINK
I COULD HIT HIM A THOUSAND TIMES BEFORE HE HAD A CHANCE TO BLINK
WITHIN THE BLINK OF AN EYE, THAWNE...

Originally Posted by Toptomcat

Even Unnatural Feature seems like an enormous stretch to me- it is *not* going to put people off enough to justify a -1 to reaction rolls, it will be a highly unusual person who even notices. Maybe you could justify a five-point Odious Personal Habit (Deliberately draws attention to the fact that he doesn't need to blink).

It'd be more obvious if you're the center of attention than in a crowd, but the same could be said of No Pulse / No Reflection too. The also -5 Long Tongue is easy to keep secret if you simply avoid eating/kissing.

I imagine someone could make vision rolls at a -9 penalty (plus speed/range) to actually watch someone else's eyes, to understand where they're looking, and maybe track how often they do certain things like dart up and down (isn't that part of lie detect?) or blink or twitch.

Originally Posted by Jariel

According to Horror pg.26 Cannot Close Eyes is a -5 point Supernatural Feature.

Features are supposed to be reaction rolls but not other crunch AFAIK, feels like there should be something else for an inability to lubricate one's eyes or a lack of a requirement to do so.

The way H26 says to purchase problems like dry eyes separately, I guess that means normal characters would too?

If CCE doesn't have "increased vulnerability to blinding attacks" would that include Sight-Based ones? Normally closing eyes is a defense against that...

Originally Posted by WingedKagouti

You need something that can move a useful distance and take useful actions in the 1/8th of a second timespan the eyes of a normal person are closed. It's basically useless outside Supers and very specific Horror scenarios.

Unless we can code something like "ability terminates if you lose sight of target" but I'm not sure how to. Vision-Based is normally just needing to see them briefly to initiate an ability, not maintain it.

It's also conceivable someone super-observant might actually predict your blinking rhythms and try to time attacks in accordance to them for some super small benefit.

[Tomsdad]

Originally Posted by Plane

....

Having vision compromised for ⅛ a second could matter against a speedster w/ Altered Time Rate 7 [700]...

or even Altered Time Rate 3 [300] if you're someone with Decreased Time Rate [-100].

Or maybe even some non-ATR w/ Extra Attack 2 (Multi-Strike) using AOA:Double?
...

two ways you could rule for these without needing a new rule

For the first two blinking is also done at that changed scale. (The anatomical reality of these traits is really a can of worms of you don't make some gameable allowances for them)



The third could be covered by the attacker briefly suppressing their blink response during that attack chain.


EDIT sorry I misread your post entirely I was thinking of the speedster and the multi attacker blinking, not their targets! (although I say the game mechanics regarding their increased ability already includes the negative effects of defending against them)

[Toptomcat]

This is a perk-level-to-five-point Unusual Background for a rather cheap Immunity in a Dr. Who or SCP game and a zero-point feature with no game-mechanical effect elsewhere. Even Unnatural Feature seems like an enormous stretch to me- it is *not* going to put people off enough to justify a -1 to reaction rolls, it will be a highly unusual person who even notices. Maybe you could justify a five-point Odious Personal Habit (Deliberately draws attention to the fact that he doesn't need to blink).