07-07-2018, 07:09 AM | #11 | |
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Luxembourg
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Re: The Problem With Magic
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So, you have spells from generic fantasy together with spells designed for the godlike Tuatha Dé Danann of Celtic Myth, industrials spell from Technomancer, ... You really need to prune the list to what fit your setting. Using everything together is like filling your plate at a buffet with chili con carne, oysters and Brussels sprout, topped with chocolate ice cream and a dash of mint sauce. it may end up palatable, but if it make you sick instead, I would not blame the cooks... As for the metaphysics, it is the default generic Magic Gurps system. It doesn't have inherent metaphysics because it is supposed to be dropped into any setting that need magic. Sure, you can abuse it in many ways and it is incoherent as a whole ... but it work perfectly for most games where the focus is on adventuring, and if your players are seriously going to analyse the "spice" spell impact on international trade between nations instead of using it to season the owlbear steak, -you are a lucky GM. -you either need to remind them that it is off-topic for a dungeon delve or if it is on topic ... then you need a metaphysically and economically coherent magic system (or likely several systems for various approach). Time to break out Thaumaturgy and excel. Last edited by Celjabba; 07-07-2018 at 07:12 AM. |
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07-07-2018, 07:31 AM | #12 |
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: L.I., NY
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Re: The Problem With Magic
When I hear people pointing out how the spells in Magic could completely transform a low-tech economy and society, it always makes me wonder how many mages they assume exist in a setting. More importantly, how many people who have committed their lives to understanding the mystical workings of the universe would then want to use that knowledge to become the equivalent of assembly line workers, mass producing products or basic commodities.
The Basic Set has loads of options, some of which contradictory, that a GM has to pick and choose from. I'm guessing no one posting here has a problem with that. Why shouldn't Magic also be a catalogue of options for assembling a magic system, rather than a pre-built cohesive whole? |
07-07-2018, 09:40 AM | #13 |
Join Date: Feb 2016
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Re: The Problem With Magic
It is the most basic of spells that transform the magical economy, stuff like Continual Light and Shape Earth. With Continual Light, one mage with 5 non-mage assistants can illuminate an entire town brighter than a modern city (they can easily cast 240 castings with daylight brightness on public lights that last for an average of a week every week, meaning that every). With Shape Earth, one mage with 5 non-mage assistants can move 36 cubic yards of Earth a hour, doing the work of over 200 hundred laborers (meaning that they can create canals, fortification, roads, etc for a fraction of the cost of anything below TL6).
With just two simple spells that any mage can learn, you transform a magical economy, and people with Magery 0 tend to make up around 1% of the population in most fantasy settings. A town of 2,500 will have 25 people with Magery 0+ of average, and I imagine that each of them will specialize in an economically viable spell. Even with an IQ 10 and Magery 0, it is worthwhile for a mage to invest 28 CP to get Continual Light-16 or Shape Earth-16 because they can support a Wealthy income with either spell when you examine the economic impact of each spell. |
07-07-2018, 10:30 AM | #14 | |
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Central Europe
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Re: The Problem With Magic
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The old job charts for mages and enchantment rules assume that most mages earn about the same as other skilled urban workers and cast the same handful of spells over and over again, we are just following that to its conclusion.
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"It is easier to banish a habit of thought than a piece of knowledge." H. Beam Piper This forum got less aggravating when I started using the ignore feature |
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07-07-2018, 10:53 AM | #15 |
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Ronkonkoma, NY
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Re: The Problem With Magic
You know, this "Continual Light will completely transform a medieval economy" argument is true of nearly every spell system invented for any RPG. There are some threads in an RPG you simply don't need to follow to their logical conclusion. Just let wizards be wizards and stop worrying about simulating a fictional economy.
I know that sounds like just pushing it under the rug, but you really don't need to explain things like where all the gold that adventurers dig up goes, or how that tribe of orcs manages to find enough food to live in that cave, or why wizards don't Continual Light their way to transforming the world's economy. If you like that sort of thing, by all means make something more to your liking. But that's not to say the magic system is unbalanced or illogical. It's just not designed to deal with such simulation. All it's trying to do is let wizards cast spells, because a lot of people seem to want to do that in an RPG. What level of impact that has is up to you. |
07-07-2018, 01:51 PM | #16 |
Join Date: Feb 2016
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Re: The Problem With Magic
Economics provide powerful motovations for most people though, so there has to be a good story reason for a character to defy their economic interests, otherwise it is just bad roleplaying. If a character with IQ 14 and Magery 3 can earn a Filthy Rich income because they are one of the top ten mage in the country, there should be a damn good story reason why he or she is not doing magic and earning $70,000+ a month. Otherwise, the character just seems implausible.
Now, it could be that the Mages Guild requires even the most talented mages to undergo a journeyman period of seven years, so the mage character is just adventuring until he or she pays his dues (in which Filthy Rich income, Rank 4, and Status 4 should be purchased as potential advantages). Or the mage could have been involved in a conspiracy that backfired in his or her home nation and they recently immigrated to avoid their enemies (in which he or she should have Secret (Escaped Traitor; Possible Death)). Or the mage could have been involved in a scandal that forced him or her from his position within the nation of the adventure (meaning that he or she will have Enemies, negative Reputations, and a Social Stigma or two). In any case, there should be a good reason in story for why such a talented person is not living the good life. |
07-07-2018, 02:33 PM | #17 | |
Join Date: Apr 2015
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Re: The Problem With Magic
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07-07-2018, 02:57 PM | #18 |
Join Date: May 2007
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Re: The Problem With Magic
How much of this is weakness in GURPS:Magic, though, and how much of that is just the nature of magic? Many of the things fantasy magic is "supposed" to do are world changing. Permanent creation of matter is just the tip of the iceberg [and, really, one of the easiest problems to deal with]. Healing spells changes demographics and attitude towards risk; mind-reading spells change the nature of criminal justice, politics, and privacy; movement and communication spells alter or remove the effects of distance; reliable divination changes just about everything. The simple fact of the matter is that, if one both wants non-trivial magic and a setting that doesn't completely revolve around its effects, there is going to have to be some "sweeping under the rug."
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07-07-2018, 03:13 PM | #19 | |
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Luxembourg
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Re: The Problem With Magic
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It is not magic but the idea is the same, : https://www.smbc-comics.com/comic/2011-07-13 |
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07-07-2018, 05:06 PM | #20 | |||
Join Date: Mar 2013
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Re: The Problem With Magic
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