[Technical Solutions] Complete Guide to Tanking in GURPS

[munin]

Kromm's Armed Interdiction technique allows you to make attacks against someone who moves past you within reach of your weapon. It defaults to Parry-2 so you can make as many armed interdictions per turn as your skill will allow.

It's loosely based on the Trip technique (p. MA81) which also allows you to intercept people who move past you.

[Refplace]

Originally Posted by munin

Kromm's Armed Interdiction technique allows you to make attacks against someone who moves past you within reach of your weapon. It defaults to Parry-2 so you can make as many armed interdictions per turn as your skill will allow.

It's loosely based on the Trip technique (p. MA81) which also allows you to intercept people who move past you.

Note that he considers this a cinematic technique and outlines why and non cinematic options pretty much rely on the Wait maneuver at the bottom of the post.

[Kuroshima]

Originally Posted by vicky_molokh

Perks and Techniques

Vicky, Vicky, Vicky... how could you forget Sacrificial Parry? Along with Shield Wall Training, it's the bread and butter of a GURPS tank. In fact, a character dual wielding fencing weapons with Weapon Master can parry an absurd number of attacks. If such weapons are reach 2, he can protect anyone in a 5 yard diameter circle.

Also, Edged Rapiers (a fencing weapon with reach 2 and swing capabilities) coupled with Weapon Master and ST 13 allow them to present a reasonable threat.

IME, tanks in DF take either this route (the Swashbuckler build) or the heavy armor and shield route (the Knight build). Two handed weapons are only viable if you use the rules in MH that halve the multiple parry penalty with them. That is, unless it's the Zweihander.

[vicky_molokh]

Originally Posted by Kuroshima

Vicky, Vicky, Vicky... how could you forget Sacrificial Parry? Along with Shield Wall Training, it's the bread and butter of a GURPS tank.

Because it is in PU2 and not MA. Adding.

Originally Posted by Kuroshima

In fact, a character dual wielding fencing weapons with Weapon Master can parry an absurd number of attacks. If such weapons are reach 2, he can protect anyone in a 5 yard diameter circle.

So can a tank wielding a Two-Handed Weapon, especially a Polearm (Staff). However, the Rapier is a flimsy weapon that will easily break. Which reminds me of another Technique . . .

Originally Posted by Kuroshima

Two handed weapons are only viable if you use the rules in MH that halve the multiple parry penalty with them. That is, unless it's the Zweihander.

Uh, MA too.

[Kuroshima]

Originally Posted by vicky_molokh

Because it is in PU2 and not MA. Adding.

So can a tank wielding a Two-Handed Weapon, especially a Polearm (Staff). However, the Rapier is a flimsy weapon that will easily break. Which reminds me of another Technique . . .

The Edged Rapier is a 3 lbs. weapon, same as a thrusting broadsword. LTC2 gives it the same DR and HP too. It's probably too good though. A quarterstaff is 4 lbs. The difference isn't that big.

EDIT: also, even if the reduced parry penalties for two handed weapons, dual edged rapiers comes ahead once you start raining attacks:

Assuming Skill 16, combat reflexes, and off hand weapon training for the rapier:
Parry sequence
Staff: 14/12/10/8/6/4
Dual Rapiers: 12/12/10/10/8/8/6/6/4/4

[vicky_molokh]

Originally Posted by Kuroshima

The Edged Rapier is a 3 lbs. weapon, same as a thrusting broadsword. LTC2 gives it the same DR and HP too. It's probably too good though. A quarterstaff is 4 lbs. The difference isn't that big.

A Polearm is easily 9-12 lbs, and a Medium Shield is 15. A Large one is 25. That's not counting Ogre Bosses with SM+1 weapons.

Originally Posted by Kuroshima

EDIT: also, even if the reduced parry penalties for two handed weapons, dual edged rapiers comes ahead once you start raining attacks:

Assuming Skill 16, combat reflexes, and off hand weapon training for the rapier:
Parry sequence
Staff: 14/12/10/8/6/4
Dual Rapiers: 12/12/10/10/8/8/6/6/4/4

Certainly nice.

[DouglasCole]

Originally Posted by Icelander

Sure, it's a good addition to a fighter's capabilities, but that doesn't change the fact that an Extra Attack that works with a manuever that isn't some variety of Attack is worth more than 25 points. You'll note that the cost of being able to choose two different manuevers in a turn is worth 100 points and this is clearly a limited version of that.

No. It isn't. It allows you to make an attack, but delayed. That's all. Two totally different, unrestricted maneuvers is the 100 point version. But allowing Extra Attack to benefit from a Wait just allows you to . . . attack later in the turn sequence.

There really isn't that much benefit to this. I can already take a Wait, and then use my attacks later.

And honestly, the rules say

Originally Posted by pp. B53-54

Extra Attack is exactly that: an extra Attack maneuver on your turn in combat. It does not eliminate the -4 penalty for an “off” hand (see Ambidexterity, p. 39) or let you take multiple Aim maneuvers (see Enhanced Tracking, p. 53). You may use some of your attacks for Feint maneuvers, but you many not take multiple actions of other kinds – that requires Altered Time Rate (p. 38).

Using Extra Attack after a wait doesn't violate the rule above at all. Feint is another manuever, not an attack option, and those are explicitly allowed. So adding Wait to the list of allowed maneuvers isn't really stretching it that much.

I could certainly do a Wait, and then when that Wait is triggered, Attack and use my extra attack on the person who triggered the Wait. If another bad guy is next to him, I can attack the first guy and then the second guy after the Wait is triggered. So really, the real trip here is that you may only select one maneuver per turn without ATR. Wait, Attack, etc. are maneuvers . . . but so is Feint. That makes what I'm trying to do more akin to Rapid Strike (two attacks, against different foes) but spaced through your turn, perhaps. Or just saying that a turn is a full second long, and that you may Attack anyone in your reach during your turn, even with Extra Attack, subject to normal restrictions (see below).

If taking Extra Attack for 25 points conferred this ability, no fighting character would ever not take it. That is an indication that it might be overpowered.

I do not agree with this assertion. Allowing Extra Attack to be selectively applied to anyone in your reachable hexes between the beginning of one turn and the beginning of your next turn is the sort of thing that fills the gap between the discrete nature of turn declarations and the continuous nature of GURPS turns.

The only thing this does is allow you to apply the rules for Multiple Targets (Martial Arts, pp. 127-128) to any foes who enter your reachable area during your turn (rather than who are already there at its beginning), and given that you have to "waste" an attack if the targets aren't in adjacent hexes, it means it's VERY specific in only allowing this on a target that enters the hex immediately left or right of your current foe. Even THEN, if he's entering that hex and it's a SIDE hex, you can only attack it with a Wild Swing.

So no, it's not overpowered. I still acknowledge that it's not strictly rules-legal
at the moment, for reasons above. Kromm's Armed Interdiction says that such a thing is cinematically possible. And "cinematic" doesn't mean "can't happen in the real world." It means "worthy of the movies," which focus on larger-than-life exploits, some of which are unlikely or difficult, but doable. This use of Extra Attack in a limited circumstance (you can Wait to use it, but rules for facing still apply, as do the rules for Multiple Targets) is so comparatively trivial that I'd still allow it as-is.

The only thing I could see doing otherwise would be tweaking/borrowing the Rapid Strike rules, and saying that you can/must do Rapid Strike on the Extra Attack to guard for this sort of thing. The first -6 is "wasted" on an empty hex, but that allows you to attack any enemy that enters any hex but your rear one at -6 when he enters your ring. It would not obviate the facing rules (skill capped at 9 for Side hexes) but would replace the normal -2 for attacking into those hexes (already more than accounted for with the -6).

[Kuroshima]

Originally Posted by vicky_molokh

A Polearm is easily 9-12 lbs, and a Medium Shield is 15. A Large one is 25. That's not counting Ogre Bosses with SM+1 weapons.
Certainly nice.

Use Low Tech weights for shields if you want sensible results. As for the polearms, IMHO the downsides (U parry in swing mode for most of them, requiring ready maneuvers to change reach for some of them,...) are too severe for their upsides. Of course there might be some polearms worth using, probably the dueling ones, but tehn they are not that heavy.

[johndallman]

Originally Posted by DouglasCole

Tactics skill, for the 'rerolls' it grants you if using the optional rules in

Martial Arts, p60. Must try too use that trick sometime.

[vicky_molokh]

Originally Posted by Kuroshima

Use Low Tech weights for shields if you want sensible results. As for the polearms, IMHO the downsides (U parry in swing mode for most of them, requiring ready maneuvers to change reach for some of them,...) are too severe for their upsides. Of course there might be some polearms worth using, probably the dueling ones, but tehn they are not that heavy.

*Annoyedly searches for yet another weapons table.* :)
Okay, 14-22 depending on what designs are common.

The polearm has to be swung in Defensive Attacks much of the time, apparently; thanks for pointing this out. Or with the Staff skill (Sodegarami is kinda neat).

Another consideration: Adding a Hilt is a good option for Polearm tanks.