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Old 08-02-2013, 03:03 AM   #41
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Default Re: What a "god"?

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Originally Posted by tantric View Post
Imagine a universe that is completely devoid of sentient life. Where is the only place it can exist? Your imagination.
Hmmm ... every universe I imagine can only exist in my imagination, no mat-
ter whether that universe is devoid or full of sentient life. I do not see how
this relates to the real world we inhabit, and for which we have sufficient
evidence that it once was devoid of sentient life.
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Old 08-02-2013, 04:17 AM   #42
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Default Re: What a "god"?

But do you have sufficient evidence that that universe exists anywhere outside your head? How? That the universe objectively exists is an assumption, it must be. It's useful, but it's wrong. Likewise, the idea that it's all in your head is an assumption, and not even useful. There is a middle path between these two assumptions, called non-duality and/or interdependent co-origination, in which an instance of reality requires both an object, whose ultimate nature is unknowable, and an observer, whose existence is dependent on said unknowable objects. Thus we conclude that reality as we understand it arises from multiple sources that cause each other in a recursive loop. Trying to keep this in mind in part of the eightfold path that leads to freedom from suffering. As was said, YMMV. Namaste.

To be more on topic, in my world (Erywhone), there are many supremely powerful beings that might be gods, such as the Sun Dragon, but there are no deity-centric religions as they don't answer prayers. On the other hand, there are lots of philosophical paths aimed at perfecting your Essence (soul, spirit, anima, what have you). When those go wrong you end up with the Yokai (see sig), else you get the Eight Immortals, which I've added to my Penglai area. All of this could be a fairly typical way of doing RPG gods in a Dharmic fashion.

Perhaps it would be good to discuss how different authors do gods in their worlds. Take, for instance, the Ascendants in the Malazan books (which I can't finish, the 9th is killing me). Or the gods in Tepper's Raising the Stones (what would you do if you had a god that *worked*?).

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Old 08-02-2013, 09:59 AM   #43
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Default Re: What a "god"?

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But do you have sufficient evidence that that universe exists anywhere outside your head? How? That the universe objectively exists is an assumption, it must be. It's useful, but it's wrong.
The assumption isn't "wrong", just, by your own logic, its veracity is unknown, and possibly unknowable. The only safe place to stand here (as with all things) is the stance of the classical skeptic, and reserve our judgement as to what is true.
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Old 08-02-2013, 10:27 AM   #44
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Default Re: What a "god"?

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Not really, except insofar as it's wise to treat beings that power level as though they were nobles. Tyr, Odin, and to an extent Hel are the only Norse deities who are primarily judges of any sort; the difference between the Aesir, the Vanir. and the Jotun was largely a matter of tribes, although while all of the Aesir and Vanir appeared to have specific portfolios (i.e. being the god of something or other0, most Jotun do not seem to, being merely very powerful beings.



Genii locorum, embodied concepts, spirits of revered ancestors, and probably a variety of other things I can't think of offhand.
The original Germanic was in fact related to godi which roughly means chief(as does the word king; it means kin-head). So yeah the concept of cosmic aristocracy was in fact there.

In any case the thread was about defining gods. So "cosmic aristocrat" is in fact a workable definition and goes well toward distinguishing gods from fays.
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Old 08-02-2013, 04:28 PM   #45
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Default Re: What a "god"?

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The original Germanic was in fact related to godi which roughly means chief(as does the word king; it means kin-head). So yeah the concept of cosmic aristocracy was in fact there.

In any case the thread was about defining gods. So "cosmic aristocrat" is in fact a workable definition and goes well toward distinguishing gods from fays.
Sure, but of course that distinction is much blurrier, or non-existent, in some contexts.
Consider the 'small ' gods of the hearth, family, fields, woods, and streams of the Pre-Christian Romans.
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Old 08-02-2013, 05:05 PM   #46
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Default Re: What a "god"?

Of course. But the OP asked for a definition. I am presuming he does not want it to be "synonym for spirit." Of course we do not know what type of verse OP is making. Maybe in OP's verse their is for instance controversy over what type of spirit constitutes a god.
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Old 08-02-2013, 05:09 PM   #47
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Default Re: What a "god"?

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Of course. But the OP asked for a definition. I am presuming he does not want it to be "synonym for spirit." Of course we do not know what type of verse OP is making. Maybe in OP's verse their is for instance controversy over what type of spirit constitutes a god.

I am presuming that as well, which I why I did not suggest that 'god' simply means 'spirit.'
Worship and devotion due the gods, be they 'great' or 'small' may be the key distinction. To use a Roman example, Jupiter is a god. But so are my household gods, and they matter a great deal to me if I'm a true Roman.

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Old 08-02-2013, 05:10 PM   #48
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Consider the 'small ' gods of the hearth, family, fields, woods, and streams of the Pre-Christian Romans.
Do you mean house-feys or do you mean Hestia who is in charge of hearths in general, or Demeter who is in charge of fields in general?
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Old 08-02-2013, 05:30 PM   #49
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Default Re: What a "god"?

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Do you mean house-feys or do you mean Hestia who is in charge of hearths in general, or Demeter who is in charge of fields in general?
I am referring to the various household and minor deities. Romans had multiple names for these beings, but they did not call them 'fays.'
In many cases they used the Latin word for 'god' or 'gods' to describe these entities.
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Old 08-02-2013, 05:39 PM   #50
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Default Re: What a "god"?

I'm not suggesting that the OP's campaign setting needs to include 'small gods.' I don't know if that would fit.

I am pointing out that these 'small gods' have been a very important part of several real world traditions.



They could be treated as 'spirits' that serve a 'larger' god and are integrated into its cultus as part of a hierarchy of servant beings.
But they might also be worshipped in their own rites; out in the fields, or the house, lonely spots in the woods, at a crossroads, and so on. The priests or ritual actors might be the heads of families, or the owners of land, or anyone who knew the proper rituals to perform. Even if they have no big temples or elaborate priestly hierarchies, they could be very important to the daily life of the people. Their pleasure or displeasure might have a significant impact on how people get on.
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