02-10-2006, 12:02 PM | #111 | |
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Reading, Pennsylvania
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Re: Fixing Demographics for GURPS BANESTORM
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02-10-2006, 12:39 PM | #112 | |
Join Date: Aug 2004
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Re: Fixing Demographics for GURPS BANESTORM
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The only comparison being made to Amerinds was with regard to Elves teaching humans magic and survival tips upon their arrival in Yrth being somewhat parallel to the help given by Squanto to English settlers. The 'slaughter another species' comment had to do with the purpose of the Banestorm being to get rid of the Orcs. Since 'another species' referred to the Orcs in this context, I'm not sure how you leap from there to thinking that anybody is referring to Amerinds as a species distinct from other humans. The worst I can see here is a comparison between Amerinds and Elves, which is a) a very loose one, having only to do with their providing aid to new settlers in their territory, and b) not at all derogatory to either party. |
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02-10-2006, 12:46 PM | #113 | |
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Germany
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Re: Fixing Demographics for GURPS BANESTORM
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:-) |
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02-10-2006, 12:52 PM | #114 | |
Join Date: Aug 2004
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Re: Fixing Demographics for GURPS BANESTORM
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02-11-2006, 01:25 AM | #115 | |
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Buffalo, New York
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Re: Fixing Demographics for GURPS BANESTORM
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Making a complaint and agressively defending it against all comers is different. Repeating the complaint multiple times, or propounding your solution without discussion, actually becomes counter-productive. implies to me that I've voiced a complaint - and have been aggressive in defending it. More specifically, it implies that I've been defending a complaint in which others feel it has no merit. So, to be fair, I'll make two comparisons here for you to view and decide whether or not my defense of my point regarding demographics is warranted or unwarranted. 1) in a room of the flatlander society, an individual who points out the math used by the Greeks to determine the Earth was round - will be laughed at and told he's wrong. It will be a majority of people telling the guy he's wrong - but hey, the so many people in agreement can't be wrong can they? 2) in a room of the scientists including those who have been up in space and seen for themselves - the earth is round, have a flatlander in their midst saying "it is all a hoax". Either way, you get the result of one individual expressing a point of view that is in a minority. Either way, the collective gets to determine if the individual is "Aggressively defending their position" no? To that end, I must concur. I have posted a viewpoint that the numbers given in BANESTORM on page 84 do not seem to match the history of Yrth as given - and that there is a problem with it. I've also posted that there is a problem with population densities along with an observation on a sociological level, that socieites in danger tend not to spread out, but stay compact for mutual self-defense. Other mitigating factors could include resources, sociological pressures and so forth. I have also pointed out "corrections" for such things - rather than just complain. At this point, I am left wondering. Am I aggressively defending the original assertion that the population numbers leave something to be desired, or am I defending the assertion that demographics is important enough to consider for a fantasy game world for a game system that seems more and more to be of the philosophy "Hang realism, Drama is King"? I find this mildly ironic when you consider the "Sticky" GURPS Martial Arts - Call for Experts. Why ask for realism from an expert in martial arts if realism isn't something to strive for? I suspect, that the mood I'm in after reading your post makes me disinclined to believe that my question is anything but rhetorical - I think I already know the answer to the question. As a final commentary on my participation in this thread: In high school, I was taught that if I didn't know the answer - to interpolate what the answer might be. Population growth of a historical nature can give us a clue on what it might be in a fantasy campaign. Historically, we have a range of .26 average anual growth rate to 2+% anual average growth rate. One might suspect that the growth rate for a fantasy game world based on a TL3 society might range somewhere between those two numbers. When I ran the numbers using an optimal 2% growth rate, people didn't care for my observations. No biggie. Defending the assertion that it doesn't make sense when I've yet to see ONE person run numbers and give me an answer different than the one I found makes me a bit less inclined towards relaxing my "aggressive defense". Rather than look at the end results of ANY assumption and determining if the numbers make sense at all seems to be something no one has tried to do. In math, there is a thing called inductive logic. Make an assumption, build a theory on that assumption. If you can prove it wrong, the original assumption is flawed. I'm not saying that we should use a low growth rate or even a high growth rate. I'm saying however, that whether you use a low OR high growth rate - the final numbers look BAD. But, that's neither here nor there. I've pointed out a flaw - it has been determined to be nothing more than a bagatelle to most "customers" here on Forums. Unfortunately for me, it is not a mere bagatelle, but a telling point that requires me to hit the "I believe button" in order to suspend the disbelief. That is analogous to a cop watching a cop show and being told "Shhh, who cares what real police procedures are - drama trumps realism" So, on that note. Your comment plus Phil's tells me that the wagons are circling and that I am being too aggressive in my commentaries. I am reading that as essentially "Shut up". That may not have been your intent (and I'm not assuming specifically that it was), but it has the net effect of reminding me that I should call this discussion quits - regardless of your intent. |
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10-18-2006, 01:30 AM | #116 |
Pike's Pique
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Cincinnati, Ohio U.S.A.
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Re: Fixing Demographics for GURPS BANESTORM
Someone mentioned Squanto??
Do they have popcorn on Yrth?? Imagine they might. They got the basics to make it . Its not exactly a high-tech food product. - Ed Charlton
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10-18-2006, 02:27 AM | #117 | |
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Portsmouth, VA, USA
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Re: Fixing Demographics for GURPS BANESTORM
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Yes we are.....and right now we are endangered....wheres the treehuggers when you need 'em? Ghostdancer
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10-18-2006, 03:53 AM | #118 | |
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Seattle, Washington, USA
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Re: Fixing Demographics for GURPS BANESTORM
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That kind of gets into the whole 'what is a race' question. In GURPS terms, every human on earth has the same racial package, regardless of ethnicity... but when the Conquistadores brought smallpox to the new world, the fatality rate among the non-resistant natives was extremely high. It is quite concievable that a fantasy setting could have diseases with similar effects on genuinely different races, creating such things is left to the GM's discretion. Generally speaking, disease is Not Much Fun At All, tho, and is generally used as a plot device affecting NPCs, not player characters. |
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10-18-2006, 06:46 AM | #119 | |
Aluminated
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: East of the moon, west of the stars, close to buses and shopping
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Re: Fixing Demographics for GURPS BANESTORM
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10-18-2006, 09:37 AM | #120 |
Grim Reaper
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Italy
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Re: Fixing Demographics for GURPS BANESTORM
Hal, I just want to say I got a lot from your discussions. Thanks.
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banestorm, world development |
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