GURPS on Stream of Blood youtube channel

Beoferret · 05-05-2020, 12:02 PM

Have many of you guys checked this out: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?lis...Mf_8BUkK7ySCF2

This seems like just the kind of thing many of us would like to see, if only as a way to raise GURPS' profile. It's a two part modern action game. The GM is pretty good; engaging, tries to keep play going at a good pace; etc. I've watched his two-part Cthulhu Dark Ages games and enjoyed it a lot (engaging players in that one). Maybe if enough of us check out his GURPS game and give him some good feedback, he'd be willing to do more GURPS?

Daigoro · 05-06-2020, 04:34 AM

Oh, hey, it's Adam from Adam Ruins Things! Seems he's a GURPS power gamer...

Maz · 05-08-2020, 02:54 PM

I think that video perfectly shows some of the strength and weaknesses of GURPS.

It shows how simple a system it really is. You can run it very very rules light and mostly just use it for the "3d6 under skill"-checks. And not care too much about "1 second combat rounds" and exact manouvers.

However it also shows that, it can be really hard for a new GURPS GM to not be confused about what sort of details to include and what not to include.

For instance the whole "shotgun problem" getting in the way of the story and ruining the immersion. This was not a problem of the rules, as such. The GM shouldn't have given a shotgun to a player without knowing how a shotgun works. However the rules for shotguns are much more complex than in other games. In pretty much any other RPG you roll to hit, then roll to damage. Stuff like RoF and Recoil determining number of pellets hit and an active defense determining number of pellets dodged. That's significantly more complex than most other RPG's.
It's very easy to use some more simple shotgun rules (just have it use the rules for slugs instead for instance). But that requires insight into the rules that are not entirely straight forward. Same for Hit Locations. Why bother with them? They just slow down the game if you aren't going to really use them anyway.

Another problem is "expectation". It's clear the players expect to be able to "do something" each turn of combat. And I really respect the GM for handwaving turns into a group of actions, instead of sticking to very strict GURPS-turns.
But the problem is that then the players are unsure what to expect. For instance Adam in one turn wants to "run up to the guy, grab him, stab him with a knife and punch him". He knows that's probably too much for a single turn but he ask anyway, as "what you can expect to achieve during one turn of combat" is not clearly defined by the GM. He also wants to climb up to the bad guys, which the GM tries to state is "an involved affair" because yes, using GURPS RAW that would probably take several turns... something the player would probably find unfair.

My point is.
GURPS can be used for this sort of fast-paced action game. But in this example you do not really see much of actual GURPS rules in effect, as so much of it is just handwaved or ignored. And it's my clear feeling that had the GM tried to stick closer to GURPS RAW, it would have made for a much less entertaining experience for the players... as their expectation was for a less detailed-oriented game. And I think that's a problem. that the GM feel they have to ignore the rules to make a more fun game. Because then what arguments do you have to actually pick GURPS over say FATE, BESM, WoD, FUDGE, D&D or any other system?

mook · 05-09-2020, 07:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maz

And I think that's a problem. that the GM feel they have to ignore the rules to make a more fun game. Because then what arguments do you have to actually pick GURPS over say FATE, BESM, WoD, FUDGE, D&D or any other system?

I wouldn't say the GM has to "ignore... rules to make a more fun game," I'd say the GM has to "curate the GURPS rules to make the game the group wants."

My personal reason for not using any of those other games is that to me GURPS is all those other games. I've GMed GURPS games in the vein of Fate/FUDGE that run super streamlined and fast-fast-fast, GURPS games that use so many layers of detailed rules it would "confirm" all the worst misconceptions of complexity that are out there, and everything in between. I don't consider that 'handwaving,' it's just doing what you should do with GURPS: pick what makes sense for this game, and save the rest for the next (or the one after that).

Naturally all groups and GMs are different, but I'm fine with dialing GURPS into "streamlined" mode for, I don't know, a kids' one-shot of "Bubble Guppies" and then into "omg, the rules, they burnses us" for a 6-month campaign of a Vietnam-era Force Recon squad.

Maz · 05-09-2020, 10:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mook

I wouldn't say the GM has to "ignore... rules to make a more fun game," I'd say the GM has to "curate the GURPS rules to make the game the group wants."

Well "curating the rules" is stuff like ignoring 1-action per turn and not using a lot of the more detailed rules like range modifiers, posture and so on.
I've done that before. One of the best GURPS experiences I have is with a group of people completely new to GURPS. Whenever we got into "combat time" they would simply state what they wanted to achieve and I would quickly sum up have many turns it would take and what rolls, at what modifier they would have to do.

That's "curating the rules" IMO.

But in this game he have both "1 action per turn" with Adam and the Raven-guy and then the others who can hack a computer system or run in and use first-aid (normally a 1 min action). During the same time-period.
I think that's fine. The GM is allowing all this in order to let everyone feel like they are participating in the same action. But it's not really following the GURPS rules anymore. But more the logic of so many other system where "a combat round" is the length of drama.
In this game, it makes it very unclear to the players (and, I would suspect, any viewer not knowing GURPS), "what can I actually expect to achieve in a turn".

GURPS combat, runs on the "blow by blow" -time frame. This is both awesome and a big problem for scenes such as this where only one person is in the fight and the others are not. You either have to suspend the rules (as the GM did here) or simply pause everything else until the fight is over.

05-05-2020, 12:02 PM	#1
Beoferret Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Cedar Falls, Iowa	GURPS on Stream of Blood youtube channel Have many of you guys checked this out: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?lis...Mf_8BUkK7ySCF2 This seems like just the kind of thing many of us would like to see, if only as a way to raise GURPS' profile. It's a two part modern action game. The GM is pretty good; engaging, tries to keep play going at a good pace; etc. I've watched his two-part Cthulhu Dark Ages games and enjoyed it a lot (engaging players in that one). Maybe if enough of us check out his GURPS game and give him some good feedback, he'd be willing to do more GURPS?

05-06-2020, 04:34 AM	#2
Daigoro Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Meifumado	Re: GURPS on Stream of Blood youtube channel Oh, hey, it's Adam from Adam Ruins Things! Seems he's a GURPS power gamer... __________________ Collaborative Settings: Cyberpunk: Duopoly Nation Space Opera: Behind the King's Eclipse And heaps of forum collabs, 30+ and counting!

05-08-2020, 02:54 PM	#3
Maz Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Denmark	Re: GURPS on Stream of Blood youtube channel I think that video perfectly shows some of the strength and weaknesses of GURPS. It shows how simple a system it really is. You can run it very very rules light and mostly just use it for the "3d6 under skill"-checks. And not care too much about "1 second combat rounds" and exact manouvers. However it also shows that, it can be really hard for a new GURPS GM to not be confused about what sort of details to include and what not to include. For instance the whole "shotgun problem" getting in the way of the story and ruining the immersion. This was not a problem of the rules, as such. The GM shouldn't have given a shotgun to a player without knowing how a shotgun works. However the rules for shotguns are much more complex than in other games. In pretty much any other RPG you roll to hit, then roll to damage. Stuff like RoF and Recoil determining number of pellets hit and an active defense determining number of pellets dodged. That's significantly more complex than most other RPG's. It's very easy to use some more simple shotgun rules (just have it use the rules for slugs instead for instance). But that requires insight into the rules that are not entirely straight forward. Same for Hit Locations. Why bother with them? They just slow down the game if you aren't going to really use them anyway. Another problem is "expectation". It's clear the players expect to be able to "do something" each turn of combat. And I really respect the GM for handwaving turns into a group of actions, instead of sticking to very strict GURPS-turns. But the problem is that then the players are unsure what to expect. For instance Adam in one turn wants to "run up to the guy, grab him, stab him with a knife and punch him". He knows that's probably too much for a single turn but he ask anyway, as "what you can expect to achieve during one turn of combat" is not clearly defined by the GM. He also wants to climb up to the bad guys, which the GM tries to state is "an involved affair" because yes, using GURPS RAW that would probably take several turns... something the player would probably find unfair. My point is. GURPS can be used for this sort of fast-paced action game. But in this example you do not really see much of actual GURPS rules in effect, as so much of it is just handwaved or ignored. And it's my clear feeling that had the GM tried to stick closer to GURPS RAW, it would have made for a much less entertaining experience for the players... as their expectation was for a less detailed-oriented game. And I think that's a problem. that the GM feel they have to ignore the rules to make a more fun game. Because then what arguments do you have to actually pick GURPS over say FATE, BESM, WoD, FUDGE, D&D or any other system?