Dungeon Fantasy Roleplaying Game Discussion Thread

[Tom H.]

Originally Posted by philreed

The nightmares you give me . . .

The hobby game distribution network can't even get reliable pre-order numbers until one week before a game ships from the warehouse to distributors. A global voucher system in which retailers -- out of the goodness of their hearts -- process game deliveries? Also, distributors would have to ship the game to the retailer.

The hobby game distribution network is in no way equipped to handle something like this. I don't even know which direction we would start at to try and push an idea like this through.

No pressure. Nobody has to do anything.

But I guess I'm stubborn... I had another idea...

What if the Kickstarter backer decided to wait on shipment. The backer then orders the game from their retailer with advanced payment or just buys a product off the shelf.

Having the product, the backer communicates to SJ Games that they will permanently forgo any shipment of their backed product in return for a refund of the pledge amount from SJ Games.

Now, you all have convinced me that even this can be an administrative headache, but this really does simplify the complexity greatly if it were to be attempted.

The trust and the transactions stay between SJ Games and the backer as was the case to begin with. Retailers and distributors are not involved in any altered way.

One downside is backers on a budget that might not be able to wait for their refund while they have paid a retailer effectively a second time.

Again, I'm brainstorming for the future in case it would become a long-term pursuit.

Will it help to lighten the mood if I say that you guys already rock!

[Tom H.]

Hi Phil,

Sorry, but I've noticed with you and Andrew that our replies are so close that we are often not responding to the latest one.

Thanks for all the above information. I know I'm delving into unknown territory.

Again, this process might be more feasible for a third party (like BackerKit) to facilitate as an option for all future Kickstarters, not just the few from SJ Games.

Originally Posted by philreed

Asking a small market like the hobby game industry to replicate practices of a monster like the grocery store channel is like asking me (personally) to go out and invest a few million dollars in a new mansion. It's just not something I'm capable of accomplishing.

Are you sure? Is Richard Garriott's Britannia Manor in west Austin still on the market?

[philreed]

Originally Posted by Tom H.

No pressure. Nobody has to do anything.

But I guess I'm stubborn... I had another idea...

What if the Kickstarter backer decided to wait on shipment. The backer then orders the game from their retailer with advanced payment or just buys a product off the shelf.

Having the product, the backer communicates to SJ Games that they will permanently forgo any shipment of their backed product in return for a refund of the pledge amount from SJ Games.

Running through this mental exercise at 4am means I'm probably making a mistake. Let me see if I'm following what you're suggesting.

* Backer pledges for $50 on Kickstarter.
* Kickstarter sends SJGames $45. (Kickstarter takes their 10% cut.)
* Distributor orders the game from SJGames for $17.50 (just part of normal business).
* Retailer puts the game on the shelf.

At this point, SJGames is positive $62.50. $45 from Kickstarter and $17.50 from distribution.

Then:

* Backer buys the game for $50 (plus appropriate taxes and other fees) at his favorite local retailer.
* Backer sends SJGames proof of purchase and SJGames refunds the backer $50.

At this point, SJGames has traded a $17.50 sale (to the distributor) for a $12.50 sale (to the Kickstarter backer). A loss of $5 per unit sold in this manner. Not to mention the administrative nightmare.

***

Our industry simply isn't large enough for this to be a profitable exercise.

[philreed]

Originally Posted by Tom H.

Are you sure? Is Richard Garriott's Britannia Manor in west Austin still on the market?

The digital games market is not the hobby game market.

http://www.cnbc.com/2016/01/26/digit...15-report.html

$61 billion is a lot more than we see in the hobby game market.

And yes, I am sure. I do not (personally) make anywhere near enough to afford a million dollar mansion. The profitability in SJGames' operations -- and the majority of hobby game publishers -- isn't high enough to pay staff incredibly high wages.

[Tom H.]

Originally Posted by philreed

Let me see if I'm following what you're suggesting.

Yeah Phil, you got it.

Though, I didn't take into account the $5.00 cut for Kickstarter.

However, the rebate to the backer could be less than $50 if he would still come out ahead by not taking the personal delivery.

For example, if you made the rebate to the customer say for $43.00 on a $50.00 pledge and he could forgo a $15.00 shipping fee (if stretch goals were not reached) by picking up the product from a retailer, then maybe all parties would be ahead.

SJ Games makes $19.50 instead of $17.50 ($2.00 extra to help with administrative headaches). And the backer pays $57.00 instead of $65.00 (or more). This is just an example, I don't know the optimal numbers to hit the sweet spot for both you and the backer.

... Except for the administrative nightmare. But hopefully the rebate accounting processes could be computerized and reused for all future Kickstarters.

But I understand if even that is too big a chore. And again, something to think about for the future.

[GM Joe]

The Kickstarter had its 5th biggest day yesterday, taking in an additional $4997 in pledges!

I'll be interested to see what W23 did, whenever that's next updated, but even without that we're on track to getting another $5 off shipping in the next 2-3 days. Then we start working toward the first added-content stretch goal...

[Langy]

Originally Posted by Tom H.

Yeah Phil, you got it.

Though, I didn't take into account the $5.00 cut for Kickstarter.

However, the rebate to the backer could be less than $50 if he would still come out ahead by not taking the personal delivery.

For example, if you made the rebate to the customer say for $43.00 on a $50.00 pledge and he could forgo a $15.00 shipping fee (if stretch goals were not reached) by picking up the product from a retailer, then maybe all parties would be ahead.

SJ Games makes $19.50 instead of $17.50 ($2.00 extra to help with administrative headaches). And the backer pays $57.00 instead of $65.00 (or more). This is just an example, I don't know the optimal numbers to hit the sweet spot for both you and the backer.

... Except for the administrative nightmare. But hopefully the rebate accounting processes could be computerized and reused for all future Kickstarters.

But I understand if even that is too big a chore. And again, something to think about for the future.

It's certainly much too big a chore to save $5 (or $0!) in shipping costs.

[philreed]

Originally Posted by Langy

It's certainly much too big a chore to save $5 (or $0!) in shipping costs.

The thought of trying to make something like this work at this scale terrifies me. This would require a full-time employee working for months to communicate and execute the concept.

We face serious challenges communicating simple promotions for our biggest line (the Munchkin card sleeves promotion, for example, still hasn't found the reach it needs). I cannot begin to imagine the depths of the nightmare of implementing Kickstarter rebate/rewards in individual stores across the world.

[philreed]

Originally Posted by GM Joe

The Kickstarter had its 5th biggest day yesterday, taking in an additional $4997 in pledges!

I'll be interested to see what W23 did, whenever that's next updated, but even without that we're on track to getting another $5 off shipping in the next 2-3 days. Then we start working toward the first added-content stretch goal...

We'll update the stretch goal graphic and numbers tomorrow. My estimate -- not at all official -- is that combined total is now around $115,000.

[GM Joe]

Originally Posted by philreed

We'll update the stretch goal graphic and numbers tomorrow. My estimate -- not at all official -- is that combined total is now around $115,000.

That'd be good! If your intuition proves correct, a couple more days at even the lowest daily take so far would be enough to get to the next stretch goal.