03-31-2012, 01:36 AM | #1 |
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Midwest, USA
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[DF 1-3] Critique Five Pre-Gen Mass-Murdering Burglar Hobos
Greetings!
Very soon, I will run a one-shot dungeon in a large city in Colorado using only the Basic Set, Magic, and Dungeon Fantasy 1-3 (and 8 for treasure). Some other rules may creep into the mix, but those will be the core books used. The players are encouraged to create characters prior to game day, but only DF1-3 can be used. The only character templates allowed are from DF 1. The disadvantage limit is the standard -50/-5 (DF 1, p. 50). Also, I'll have a group of five pre-generated characters available, created with advice from my thread Which Four PC Templates? It looks like we'll have four players, but I'm making one extra just in case. While I'm 16-year veteran GM of GURPS, I've never played or GM'ed Dungeon Fantasy, so I'll appreciate some help. Normally, GM's favor PC's that are made with imagination rather than Munchkin-ism. However, for this, I want each of the PC's to be min-maxed to the hilt. This is a fantasy special forces/black-ops battle party. We're talking real mass-murdering burglar hobos here. In addition to loads of perilous encounters against Construct, Mundane and Undead and maybe even some Animal and Demon-class enemies, the dungeon includes a number of puzzles and physical challenges that don't include combat. Probably the best four- or five-player party combination would include two Knights, a Scout and a Thief, but that may not be the most fun for the players. In the post below are the five pre-gen PC's: a Barbarian, Cleric, Knight, Scout, Thief and Wizard. Please critique them, but please limit suggestions to RAW DF 1-3. These are the first characters I've ever made using templates, let alone for DF, so I doubt they will be very well made. Hopefully, the collective will fix that! Thanks so much for helping. I don't want to bomb this as that could have a negative impact on GURPS' reputation across a large population. |
03-31-2012, 01:39 AM | #2 |
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Midwest, USA
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Re: [DF 1-3] Critique Five Pre-Gen Mass-Murdering Burglar Hobos
If someone would be so kind as to run these numbers through their character-making program, I would appreciate it!
Updated: Half-Ogre Barbarian! Dwarf Knight 250 points ST 15 [50]; DX 14 [80]; IQ 10 [0]; HT 14 [30]*. Damage 1d+1/2d+1; BL 58 lbs.; HP 15 [0]; Will 10 [0]; Per 10 [0]; FP 17 [0]*. Basic Speed 6.00 [-15]; Basic Move 5 [0]*; Dodge 9†; Parry (Axe) ?†; Block 12†. Advantages Born War-Leader 2 [10]; Combat Reflexes [15]; Dwarf [20]; High Pain Threshold [10]; Pickaxe Penchant 3 [15]; Weapon Master (Axe) [20]. Disadvantages (TBD) [-35]; Quirks [-5]. Skills Armoury (Melee Weapons) (A) IQ+1 [4]-11; Axe/Mace (A) DX+2 [8]-20§; Brawling (E) DX+1 [2]-15; Carousing (E) HT [1]-14; Climbing (A) DX-1 [1]-13; Connoisseur (Weapons) (A) IQ+1 [4]-11; Fast-Draw (Axe) (E) DX+1 [1]-15†; Flail (H) DX+1 [8]-15; Intimidation (A) Will-1 [1]-9; Knife (E) DX [1]-14; Leadership (A) IQ+1 [1]-11‡; Shield (E) DX+2 [4]-16; Stealth (A) DX-1 [1]-13; Strategy (H) IQ+1 [2]-11‡; Tactics (H) IQ+1 [2]-11‡; Thrown Weapon (Axe/Mace) (E) DX+2 [4]-20§; Two-Handed Axe/Mace (A) DX+2 [8]-20§; Wrestling (A) DX [2]-14. * Included in or modified by dwarf racial template. † Includes +1 for Combat Reflexes. ‡ Includes +2 for Born War-Leader. § Includes +4 for Pickaxe Penchant. Note: I swapped one of the Knight's three weapon choices for two-handed axe/mace, justified by Pickaxe Penchant stating all dwarfs are natural at fighting with them. Equipment (TBD) Female Wood Elf Scout 250 points ST 12 [30]*; DX 15 [80]*; IQ 11 [20]; HT 12 [20]. Damage 1d-2/1d+2; BL 29 lbs.; HP 12 [0]; Will 11 [0]; Per 14 [15]; FP 12 [0]. Basic Speed 7.00 [10]; Basic Move 8 [0]*; Dodge 11; Parry (Broadsword) 11; Block N/A. Advantages Wood Elf [20]; Heroic Archer [20]; Outdoorsman 2 [20]; Strongbow [1]. Disadvantages (TBD) [-50]; Quirks [-5]. Skills Acrobatics (H) DX [4]-15; Bow (A) DX+6 [16]-21‡; Broadsword (A) DX+3 [12]-18; Camouflage (E) IQ+6 [2]-17†‡; Cartography (A) IQ+1 [4]-12; Climbing (A) DX+1 [4]-16; Fast-Draw (Arrow) (E) DX+2 [1]-17‡; Gesture (E) IQ+1 [2]-12; Hiking (A) HT [2]-12; Jumping (E) DX [1]-15; Knife (E) DX [1]-15; Mimicry (Bird Calls) (H) IQ+1 [2]-12†; Navigation (Land) (A) IQ+1 [1]-12†; Observation (A) Per [2]-14; Riding (Horse) (A) DX-1 [1]-14; Search (A) Per-1 [1]-13; Shadowing (A) IQ+1 [4]-12; Stealth (A) DX+1 [1]-16‡; Survival (Woodlands) (A) Per+3 [1]-17†‡; Swimming (E) HT [1]-12; Tracking (A) Per+2 [2]-16†; Traps (A) IQ+1 [4]-12. * Included in or modified by wood elf racial template. † Includes +2 for Outdoorsman. ‡ Includes +2 for Forest Guardian. Equipment (TBD) Half-Ogre Barbarian 250 points ST 21 (Size†, -10%) [63]*; DX 13 [60]; IQ 9 [0]*; HT 14 [30]*. Damage 2d/4d-1; BL 88 lbs.; HP 26 (Size†, -10%) [9]; Will 9 [0]; Per 11 [10]; FP 14 [0]. Basic Speed 6.00 [-10]; Basic Move 7† [0]; Dodge ?‡; Parry ?‡; Block ?‡. Advantages Combat Reflexes [15]; Half-Ogre [16]; High Pain Threshold [10]; Outdoorsman 2 [20]; Weapon Master (Two-Handed Sword) [20]. Disadvantages Gigantism [0]; (TBD) [-40]; Quirks [-5]. (1 quirk used) Skills (48) Animal Handling (Horse) (A) IQ [2]-9; Brawling (E) DX [1]-13; Camouflage (E) IQ+2 [1]-11§; Climbing (A) DX-1 [1]-12; Disguise (Animals) (A) IQ [2]-9; First Aid (E) IQ [1]-9; Fishing (E) Per+3 [1]-13§; Forced Entry (E) DX [1]-13; Hiking (A) HT-1 [1]-12; Intimidation (A) Will [2]-9; Mimicry (Animal Sounds) (H) IQ [1]-9§; Naturalist (H) IQ [1]-9§; Navigation (Land) (A) IQ+2 [2]-11§; Observation (A) Per-1 [1]-10; Running (A) HT-1 [1]-12; Stealth (A) DX [2]-13; Survival (Woodlands) (A) Per+1 [1]-12§; Swimming (E) HT [1]-14; Thrown Weapon (Axe/Mace) (E) DX+2 [4]-15; Tracking (A) Per+1 [1]-12§; Two-Handed Sword (A) DX+4 [16]-17; Weather Sense (A) IQ [2]-9; Wrestling (A) DX [2]-13. * Included in or modified by half-ogre racial template. † Includes effects of SM +1 from Gigantism. ‡ Includes +1 for Combat Reflexes. § Includes +2 for Outdoorsman. NOTE: I traded 20 points from Outdoorsman for Weapon Master. Equipment (TBD) Human Cleric 250 points ST 12 [20]; DX 12 [40]; IQ 14 [80]; HT 12 [20]. Damage 1d-1/1d+2; BL 29 lbs.; HP 12 [0]; Will 14 [0]; Per 14 [0]; FP 12 [0]. Basic Speed 6.00 [0]; Basic Move 6 [0]; Dodge ?‡; Parry ?‡; Block ?‡. Advantages Clerical Investment [5]; Power Investiture 3 [30]; • 25 points in Holy abilities (p. 22); put leftovers into spells. • A further 20 points chosen from among additional Holy abilities or ST +1 or +2 [10 or 20], DX +1 [20], IQ +1 [20], HT +1 or +2 [10 or 20], Will +1 to +4 [5/level], FP +1 to +6 [3/level], Fearlessness [2/level] or Unfazeable [15], Healer 1 or 2 [10 or 20], Languages (any) [2-6/language], Luck [15], Mind Shield [4/level], Power Investiture 4 or 5 [10 or 20], Resistant to Disease (+3) or (+8) [3 or 5], or Signature Gear [Varies]. Disadvantages (TBD) [-]; Quirks [-5]. Skills (48) * Included in or modified by ? racial template. † Includes +? for . ‡ Includes +? for . § Includes +? for . Equipment (TBD) Last edited by Stripe; 04-07-2012 at 12:18 AM. |
03-31-2012, 01:49 AM | #3 |
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Midwest, USA
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Re: [DF 1-3] Critique Five Pre-Gen Mass-Murdering Burglar Hobos
Reserved...
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03-31-2012, 02:12 AM | #4 | |
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Saskatoon, SK
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Re: [DF 1-3] Critique Five Pre-Gen Mass-Murdering Burglar Hobos
Quote:
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03-31-2012, 02:13 AM | #5 |
Wielder of Smart Pants
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Ventura CA
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Re: [DF 1-3] Critique Five Pre-Gen Mass-Murdering Burglar Hobos
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03-31-2012, 02:13 AM | #6 | |
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Oregon
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Re: [DF 1-3] Critique Five Pre-Gen Mass-Murdering Burglar Hobos
Quote:
Berserk doesn't kick in until he's already wounded (unless modified), and can be resisted as well. He already has High Pain Threshold, which makes much of the advantage of going Berserk redundant. Last edited by vierasmarius; 03-31-2012 at 02:17 AM. |
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03-31-2012, 02:27 AM | #7 |
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Midwest, USA
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Re: [DF 1-3] Critique Five Pre-Gen Mass-Murdering Burglar Hobos
I didn't notice that I'm allowed to drop the shield skill RAW until too sleepy to change. I'll do that and up 2HS by a level tomorrow.
Like I say, I get y'all on shield+sword > 2H Sword. But there's considerable benefits above HPT to Berserk and a shield drops in value since he'll be making AoA's. Berserk + HT 14 = unstoppable killing machine. Stripe out. |
03-31-2012, 05:48 AM | #8 |
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Austin, TX
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Re: [DF 1-3] Critique Five Pre-Gen Mass-Murdering Burglar Hobos
He's got Bad Temper, which means he has a chance of going Berserk just because someone told him he was ugly. Which he is.
And all the HT and HP in the world don't help after someone has taken advantage of your lack of defenses to stab out your eyes. For comparison, here's a half-ogre knight with Gigantism I put together for my game. I've only seen him fight in one or two combats, but he's pretty boss: Big Al Half Ogre Knight (250 points) ST 22* [72]; DX 14 [80]; IQ 9† [0]; HT 14‡ [30]. Damage 2d/4d; BL 97*lb; HP 23 [2]; Will 10 [5]; Per 9 [0]; FP 14 [0]. Basic Speed 7.00 [0]; Basic Move 8§ [0]; Dodge 11¶. (SM +1§). Social Background TL: 3 [0]. Templates and Meta-Traits Half-Ogre (Dungeon Fantasy; p.*DF3:15) [16]; Knight (Dungeon Fantasy; p.*DF1:8) [0]. Advantages Born War-Leader 2 [10]; Combat Reflexes [15]; Fit [5]; High Pain Threshold [10]; Trading Character Points for Money $2,500 [5]. Disadvantages Compulsive Generosity (12 or less) [-5]; Gigantism [0]; Greed (12 or less) [-15]; Gullibility (15 or less) [-5]; Odious Personal Habit (Continuous singing) [-5]; Sense of Duty (Adventuring companions) [-5]; Wealth (Poor) [-15]. Quirks: _Unused Quirk 4; Delusion: Thinks his singing is magical; Dislikes bullies; Makes floral arrangements; Prefers to avoid violence. [-5] Skills Armoury/TL3 (Melee Weapons) (A) IQ+1 [4]-10; Brawling (E) DX+1 [2]-15; Climbing (A) DX-1 [1]-13; Connoisseur (Weapons) (A) IQ+1 [4]-10; Crossbow (E) DX+2 [4]-16; Fast-Draw (Knife) (E) DX+1 [1]-15¶; Flail (H) DX+5 [24]-19; Hiking (A) HT-1 [1]-13; Intimidation (A) Will-1 [1]-9; Knife (E) DX [1]-14; Leadership (A) IQ+1 [1]-10**; Shield (Shield) (E) DX+2 [4]-16; Stealth (A) DX-1 [1]-13; Strategy (Land) (H) IQ+1 [2]-10**; Tactics (H) IQ+1 [2]-10**; Wrestling (A) DX [2]-14. **Includes +4 from 'Racial ST Bonus'. †*Includes -1 from 'Half-Ogre (Dungeon Fantasy)'. ‡*Includes +1 from 'Half-Ogre (Dungeon Fantasy)'; Conditional +1 from 'Fit'. §*Includes +1 from 'Gigantism'. ¶*Includes +1 from 'Combat Reflexes'. ***Includes +2 from 'Born War-Leader'. Equipment 1× Backpack, Small ($60; 3*lb); 1× Barrel Helm (Lightened Oversized; $480; 15*lb); 1× Boots (Lightened Oversized; $160; 4.5*lb); 1× Crossbow (ST 25; Oversized; $225; 9*lb); 8× Crossbow Bolt (Oversized; $24; 11.52*oz); 1× Heavy Leather Leggings (Lightened Oversized; $120; 6*lb); 1× Mail Sleeves (Lightened Oversized; $140; 13.5*lb); 1× Medium Shield (Oversized; $90; 22.5*lb); 1× Morningstar (Oversized; $120; 9*lb); 1× Personal Basics (Oversized; $7.5; 1.5*lb); 1× Pouch ($17.5; 1.5*lb); 1× Scale Armor (Lightened Oversized; $840; 52.5*lb); 1× Shoulder Quiver (Oversized; $44; 1.72*lb). Encumbrance None: Basic Lift 97*lb. Ground Move 8*yd; Water Move 1*yd. Dodge 11. [Light]: Basic Lift 194*lb. Ground Move 6*yd; Water Move 1*yd. Dodge 10. Medium: Basic Lift 291*lb. Ground Move 4*yd; Water Move 1*yd. Dodge 9. Heavy: Basic Lift 582*lb. Ground Move 3*yd; Water Move 1*yd. Dodge 8. X-Heavy: Basic Lift 970*lb. Ground Move 1*yd; Water Move 1*yd. Dodge 7. Defenses Parry: 13 (Flail). Block: 12 (Shield (Shield)). Dodge: 10/11.Eyes: DR 0+1; DB 0+2; HP 3. Neck: DR 0+1; DB 0+2. Skull: DR 8+1; DB 0+2. Face: DR 6+1; DB 0+2. Torso: DR 4+1; DB 0+2. Groin: DR 4+1; DB 0+2. Arms: DR 4/2*+1; DB 0+2; HP 12. Hands: DR 0+1; DB 0+2; HP 8. Legs: DR 2+1; DB 0+2; HP 12. Feet: DR 2*+1; DB 0+2; HP 8. Melee Attacks Brawling * Punch (15): 2d-1 cr. Reach C,1. Brawling * Bite (15): 2d-1 cr. Reach C,1. Brawling * Kick (13): 2d cr. Reach C,1. Medium Shield * Bash (16): 2d+1 cr. Reach 1. Medium Shield * Rush (16): slam+2+1 cr. Reach 1. Morningstar (19): 4d+4 cr. Reach 1. Ranged Attacks Crossbow ST 25 (16): 2d+7 imp. Acc 4. Range 500*yd / 625*yd. RoF 1. Shots 1(4). Last edited by mlangsdorf; 03-13-2013 at 01:57 PM. Reason: typo |
03-31-2012, 06:38 AM | #9 |
Join Date: Feb 2007
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Re: [DF 1-3] Critique Five Pre-Gen Mass-Murdering Burglar Hobos
Hm. If a 2 handed weapon isn't the most effective for a guy like this, under what circumstances would you have a DF PC wielding a 2 handed weapon?
(Assuming, as per the OP, that we are being munchkins about this)
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03-31-2012, 06:38 AM | #10 |
Fightin' Round the World
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: New Jersey
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Re: [DF 1-3] Critique Five Pre-Gen Mass-Murdering Burglar Hobos
I'd ditch Berserk. It's a death sentence if he's not massively armored (and with SM+1 that'll be expensive and heavy) and easy to heal (SM+1 doubles the cost to heal him).
I'd also, since he's a one-weapon weapon master, focus more on his sword. My player Mike made his Weapon Master (Greatsword) knight up with option 1 (for Two-Handed Sword-20) and followed the note on Shield that let him ditch it for another +1 to Two-Handed Sword. He got ST 17, as well, so he had Two-Handed Sword-21, does 3d+8 cut or 1d+7 impale with his greatsword (he trading his quirk points for cash to get a good sword and some plate), has a Parry of 14 to start (and multiple parries at -2 with Basic Set, -1 if you use Martial Arts's rules which we do). Even a Swashbuckler can't start with as high of a weapon skill unless he spends Quirk points on it. (Just as an aside, he also took HP 20 to start for the doubling of healing effects, so he's extremely easy to keep in fighting trim.) I don't see all that much point in learning multiple weapon skills when they aren't covered by Weapon Master. Even as backup, it's more useful to just carry more of your main weapon (took Weapon Master Greatsword? Get a wooden one made, or carry a spare cheap one at 40% cost, and lanyard the main one on you).
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