Flying creature snatching target from ground

[GnomesofZurich]

Sorry if this has been covered previously, my attempts at searching did not turn up anything.

What is the procedure for a flying creature (such as a dragon) snatching a target from the ground and returning to the air without landing?

From my reading, I think it would be move up into close combat, grapple, lift, and then move to gain altitude. It looks like this would take at least 4 turns, 3 with a Move and Attack. You would have to be careful to select targets that did not encumber you overly much.

I'd be appreciate any insight or clarification from the community.

[kdtipa]

I have something similar I asked about...
Catching and Pulling Someone to Safety

But that's a little different when it's consenting I think.

I think in your scenario, the Dragon could probably do it with two seconds pretty reasonably...

• Move and Attack (to fly in and make less coordinated grab) or All-Out Attack (to fly in a little slower but make a really good attack) for movement and the grab.
• Move (to fly away still holding onto the target)

I don't know of specific rules for it, but it seems reasonable that if the target is some amount under the dragon's Basic Lift (the amount you can lift from the ground to over your head in one second), you ought to be able to just keep flying with the target in tow. I might look for rules on that because now I'm curious.

[Kelly Pedersen]

You should check out the article "Animal Combat Styles" in Pyramid #3/111. It has the "Swooping Attack" technique, which is basically what you're looking for.

[Refplace]

Originally Posted by Kelly Pedersen

You should check out the article "Animal Combat Styles" in Pyramid #3/111. It has the "Swooping Attack" technique, which is basically what you're looking for.

Thank you :)
I wrote up animal attack types a martial arts styles and included new techniques for common moves that seemed hard to do but were common animal maneuvers.

[evileeyore]

Originally Posted by GnomesofZurich

What is the procedure for a flying creature (such as a dragon) snatching a target from the ground and returning to the air without landing?

Move and Attack with a Grapple. If it's strong enough* it doesn't have to "waste time" lifting it's target, it just moves away and the target is carried.



* Twice target's ST. Basic, pg 371 middle column.

[Kelly Pedersen]

Originally Posted by Refplace

Thank you :)

Good rules should be promoted! :-)

Personally, I'd add an All-Out Attack variant to Swooping Attack - I think a fair number of such attacks in fiction seem to sacrifice effective defense, and that would allow the attacker to use half their full Move, instead of just two steps, for a bit more distance. Still, the Swooping Attack, as written, will definitely do the job!

[Anaraxes]

A "Move and Attack" Maneuver allows attacking in the middle of the move. (It's not "Move and then Attack", it's "Both Move and Attack".*) So the attack could take as little as one turn. Move a bit, roll your grapple, keep moving (if you can still manage with the extra burden).


--
* B365 says "during or after", so literalists can argue you can't attack before you spend at least one Move point.

[Refplace]

Originally Posted by Kelly Pedersen

Good rules should be promoted! :-)

Personally, I'd add an All-Out Attack variant to Swooping Attack - I think a fair number of such attacks in fiction seem to sacrifice effective defense, and that would allow the attacker to use half their full Move, instead of just two steps, for a bit more distance. Still, the Swooping Attack, as written, will definitely do the job!

Yeah, if I had had more space there are a few more Techniques I had considered. I went with this one because in watching videos it seemed more graceful than All Out Attack, and I saw one where an eagle appeared to dodge a bite from a snake.

Also part of the goal was to give shapeshifters (including PCs) effective options.

Originally Posted by Anaraxes

A "Move and Attack" Maneuver allows attacking in the middle of the move. (It's not "Move and then Attack", it's "Both Move and Attack".*) So the attack could take as little as one turn. Move a bit, roll your grapple, keep moving (if you can still manage with the extra burden).

But note you need to buy a Technique if you want to offset the Wild Swing penalty.

[GnomesofZurich]

Thanks all, the challenging thing in GURPS isn't that you can't do something, it's finding where the rules tell you how to do it. I had seen the article in Pyramid #3/111 before, just had forgotten about it.

This is a generally useful thing to know how to do, but I was specifically thinking of it for GURPS Dungeon Fantasy using a Gargoyle with the Wrestler template from that same issue. With ST 16 and Lifting ST 6 one could have a BL of 97, so you would only be able to lift small characters initially.

[evileeyore]

Originally Posted by Refplace

But note you need to buy a Technique if you want to offset the Wild Swing penalty.

Also it could just All Out Attack. Nothing says all the movement has to be before the attack.

And if it's not strong enough, All Out Attack (Double) for the Grapple+Takedown, followed by All Out Attack for the Pin and then movement. I mean, it's not like it actually has to "stop moving", it's just the way the timing comes out that it makes "three attacks right in the middle of its move".


Though for monsters like this, I like to treat them as having Run and Hit from DF 11 Power-Ups. But then I also like to let the monsters occasionally "fail to realize how tough their prey is" so they'll make a snatch and get stuck because they aren't strong enough to just "fly off" with the burden (either because the armored kiniget is too heavy, or too strong).