02-11-2009, 03:48 PM | #11 | |||
Join Date: Feb 2008
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Re: [DF] Bardic power modifier - Singing or Playing? / Usefulness of Druids
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Hell, concussion blasts and electricity attacks are in the Air college. To me that means that they get the DR vs explosions and shock attacks too. Same thing for the Water college and acid spells. I wouldn't give that to mere "tough skin." Especially not acid. Granted, it doesn't work against plant matter or animal attacks and some forms of exotic energy, I'm sure. But I'd let it work against metal too. Make people EARN that extra -20% for Tough Skin. In my games Tough Skin will help you in the majority of fights, but that is it. |
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02-11-2009, 04:45 PM | #12 | |||||
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Torino, Italy
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Re: [DF] Bardic power modifier - Singing or Playing? / Usefulness of Druids
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I am not saying that Tough Skin isn't a limitation, I am saying it should be worth -10%. Quote:
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But "Elemental" in GURPS means, obviously, "directly related to the 4 raw elements, water fire earth air" (see as an example the Elemental power modifiers in Powers) Weapons are made of iron and wood, not of earth or water, and most certainly don't count as "Elemental". Even if they do, Damage Resistance (Tough Skin) is superior and cheaper, so I can't understand your point...
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02-11-2009, 05:36 PM | #13 | |||||||
Join Date: Feb 2008
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Re: [DF] Bardic power modifier - Singing or Playing? / Usefulness of Druids
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All something needs to do to get past Tough Skin is to do damage with a gentle touch or produce even a cinematic amount of blood. Expand that a bit more than a poison dart or an electric shock. It doesn't count against; fire, acid, frostbite, caustic gasses, steam, sand in the eyes, hot pokers or being slowly crushed by rocks. Elemental in my games protects against all of these things by virtue of either; being directly related to the element in question, being directly derived from the element in question or showing up on the elemental spell lists in some form. I admit, I might be pushing it on the frostbite thing, but I'm running with it. Tough Skin doesn't discriminate about what you are getting whacked with, though. Bones, claws, sticks and the like are blocked just as easily as swords and knives. However, you DO have to get whacked with something. So yes. Tough Skin the way you are playing it might only be worth -10%. My players get a full -40% out of the deal. |
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02-11-2009, 07:24 PM | #14 |
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Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Montréal, Québec
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Re: [DF] Bardic power modifier - Singing or Playing? / Usefulness of Druids
Tough Skin is horribly limiting. Imagine you have DR 2 leather armor and DR 4 with Tough Skin. Sure, your DR is 6 for the purpose of avoiding HP damage from the basic attack. However, because even exactly 0 damage, or 2 points in this case, touches your skin, your DR acts as 1 for the purpose of avoiding anything with Blood Agent, Contact, or Follow-Up; Side Effects (which use penetrating damage and not injury!); the Pressure Points skill; and so on. Given the sheer number of biting and stinging things down in dungeons, it's no gimme.
For something that has an anemic sting (say, 1d) but a horrid venom (say, 3d) – which is most venomous critters – Tough Skin amounts to "this DR doesn't usefully exist." The knight with DR 6 plate armor can ignore that sting. The barbarian with DR 6 from the above combo will on average end up taking 8.75 damage from the sting, because on 2 (exactly 0) to 6 on the 1d of physical damage, he might not take injury from the blow but he takes 3d damage from the poison.
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02-12-2009, 03:56 AM | #15 |
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Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Europe
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Re: [DF] Bardic power modifier - Singing or Playing? / Usefulness of Druids
Well, a few reasons why Bards might want to use instruments instead of singing.
You can exert a higher FP after-combat penalty if the Bard used his Singing skill during the fight. IIRC there's an FP penalty for all fights lasting longer than a few rounds, higher if you were encumbered. It seems sensible to me to charge 1 additional FP if the Bard used his Singing skill for more than 3 rounds during any one fight. That might make a big difference, though... Also, instruments can be magical, and give a bonus to the skill used to playing them, while in some magic systems, perhaps many, it is difficult if not impossible to make a magic item that boosts singing skill. So the Bard can either buy bonus instruments (high quality craftsmanship, or Enchanted, or both) or find them as loot. The big question here is, are there any benefits of higher-than-14 Instrument skill, for a Bard? |
02-12-2009, 04:00 AM | #16 | |
Banned
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Europe
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Re: [DF] Bardic power modifier - Singing or Playing? / Usefulness of Druids
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I mean, a Barbarian buying his DR up to 4 or 5 would be a suspension-of-disbelief threat, and a Martial Artist buying his up to more than 7 or 8 would too, but a Druid? I don't see a problem with that at all. |
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02-12-2009, 05:56 AM | #17 | ||||
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Torino, Italy
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Re: [DF] Bardic power modifier - Singing or Playing? / Usefulness of Druids
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If they could, every PC will buy DR 10 and they would be near-invincible in a low-tech game.
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02-12-2009, 06:09 AM | #18 | |||||||
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Torino, Italy
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Re: [DF] Bardic power modifier - Singing or Playing? / Usefulness of Druids
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Elemental is a "very common" category, if you compare it with other "very common" examples (all melee attacks, all ranged, all physical attacks) you will see that "any physical or energy attack loosely related with elements, including metal" is too broad. Specifically, I'd be ready to bet $100 that, by RAW, Elemental does NOT include metal. Quote:
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02-12-2009, 07:09 AM | #19 | |
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Vermont
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Re: [DF] Bardic power modifier - Singing or Playing? / Usefulness of Druids
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02-12-2009, 08:28 AM | #20 | |
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Ottawa, ON, CA
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Re: [DF] Bardic power modifier - Singing or Playing? / Usefulness of Druids
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Second: It's neither cheating nor adversarial for the GM to create situations in which limited DR isn't as good as non-limited DR. The player has paid less for his DR; it should be less good. It's cheating for the GM NOT to run into situations where your Tough Skin is less useful, because if you never do, you've gotten something for nothing. Kromm's example of a 1d stinger with a 3d followup is an excellent one. Tough Skin also won't protect you against: -The HT penalties on Water as-Sharak's 'Ocean's Frozen Spray' ability or that of an Earth as-Sharak's 'Desert's Sand' ability; -An Erupting Slime's Slimeball attack; -A Frost Snake's 2d toxic follow-up, which will affect you fully even if its 1d bite is stopped to exactly 0 points by your armor; -A Toxifier's Toxic Attack. That's just from the stock monsters provided in DF2. Tough Skin is not a free limitation. |
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