02-11-2009, 05:58 AM | #1 |
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Torino, Italy
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[DF] Bardic power modifier - Singing or Playing? / Usefulness of Druids
Dungeon Fantasy 1 states that Bards need to "sing or play a musical instrument" in order to use his spells and abilities. (emphasis mine).
Under that assumption, why should a Bard choose to play an instrument rather than singing? (Singing obviously doesn't prevent you from wielding weapons and fighting; moreover, instruments can easily break, be stolen and so on). I ask that because DF3 seems to imply that Bards need an instrument... e.g. under the Bard-Holy warrior lense, it says "playing an instrument whilst smiting demons isn’t easy – this combo calls for cunning play."; under the Bard-Scout, it refers to the Bow Harp (an expensive dual-purpose weapon/instrument that nobody would buy if he could simply sing). If Bards ARE allowed to simply sing, how is this a "limitation"? Another (unrelated) question... many "other profession - Bard" lenses have Singing/Musical Instrument skills lower than 14, yet they list bardic spells and powers. Should that be errata-ed? There is NO point in acquiring bardic spells and powers if you can't use them (per DF1, a musical skill 14 is required) Bard lenses should all include either Singing or Musical instrument at 14, and only then buy some Bardic spells/powers. ===== Yet another (even more unrelated) question: in your opinion, what is the point in playing a Druid? Wizards have a lot more spells than Druids; Clerics have a limited list, but they can HEAL. Many Druidic spells are of dubious utility (being very expensive, slow to cast, not-so-direct). Moreover, Druids get a -3 penalty in most dungeon, so they are WAY more limited than mages/clerics, who only rarely encounter low-mana or low-sanctity zones (I hope we all agree that in Dungeon Fantasy, dungeons are much more common than low-mana zones). From a combat perspective, Druids are similar to Wizards and weaker than Clerics. Some Druidic powers are nice, but most are too expensive or simply useless (20/30 points for Speak with animals or Mind Control Animals are a bad joke for a profession with access to animal spells; Damage Resistance limited to Elemental is perhaps the worst deal in the whole DF book...) Outdoor/survival skills are nice, but other professions have those, too (Barbarians and Scouts). Having a Summonable cave bear as your ally is nice, but then again, Clerics and Holy Warriors have Divine Servitors, who are FAR better because animals attack unarmed and thus are easily maimed by armed parries. So I can't see where Druids are supposed to excel, compared to other profession. Of course you can choose to play a Druid for roleplaying reason, but... in a "munchkin" game you will probably regret that decision soon enough :)
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02-11-2009, 09:10 AM | #2 |
Join Date: Nov 2008
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Re: [DF] Bardic power modifier - Singing or Playing? / Usefulness of Druids
I know there are non traditional instruments (not using lute, harp, trumpet) that you could employ. I dunno a magical drummer....
But this was a question about singing vs. instruments. I can think of some situations where the Bard's magic would be hindered. IDHMBWM but some may optionally include them. 1) The Bard is in an area where there is a Noxious gas. He might need to inhale to sustain his spell that allows him and his party to pass through unhurt. Oops! now he's affected. (Filterlungs aside) 2) Combat has moved to an underwater setting. Aside from breathing spells/ or other that are cast prior to entering the water the bard must have an ability to speak underwater in-order to continue or recast. Who says mini-xylophones don't work underwater? 3) If the bard is gagged, choked, or restrained, (in a vacuum?) in a way to inhibit his voice casting should be at a penalty or unavailable (if you can only use magery or an advantage dependent on bardic singing). Maybe not so in the case of gagging as that would be more in the manner of being caught and having your instruments taken away anyways. But if you have someone strangling you with both hands your hands may be available to use your instrument. I do not have the DF books so I don't know if skill rolls are required for your singing or instrument playing. I'd say some instruments would be penalized for shock penalty (-DX). As for singing anything that affects HT could apply when you're using your power/ability. I am currently playing a semi-bardic archer that uses song to enhance / guide his arrows or root his prey. I hope you get some other feedback from this. Hope this Helps Kenstah EDIT: Added some examples Last edited by Kenvain; 02-11-2009 at 09:17 AM. |
02-11-2009, 09:34 AM | #3 | ||
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Re: [DF] Bardic power modifier - Singing or Playing? / Usefulness of Druids
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02-11-2009, 11:04 AM | #4 | |||||||
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Re: [DF] Bardic power modifier - Singing or Playing? / Usefulness of Druids
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02-11-2009, 11:37 AM | #5 | |||||||
Join Date: Sep 2004
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Re: [DF] Bardic power modifier - Singing or Playing? / Usefulness of Druids
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I imagine that bards would rarely use an instrument, and that's a pity - I would probably have preferred if the Limitation forced you to play (not just sing). But that's only personal taste! Quote:
So you are perfectly right, even the low-IQ professions will be able to use bardic powers (albeit they won't have the option of playing an instrument instead of singing) Quote:
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Anyway, thanks for pointing out it works against ALL elements (I thought it was limited to ONE element, for -40%). Quote:
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02-11-2009, 11:56 AM | #6 |
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Re: [DF] Bardic power modifier - Singing or Playing? / Usefulness of Druids
"Druid" is a narrow profession. It's there because it's expected, not because it really stands on its own as well as the others. To be honest, were I running a pure underground dungeon crawl as one of my typical six-player games, I would expect to see a cleric, a holy warrior, a knight, a thief, a wizard, and either a martial artist or a swashbuckler. But if I were running a wilderness crawl, I could definitely see that changing to a barbarian, a cleric, a druid, a knight, a scout, and a wizard. And in an urban street crawl, I'd probably get a bard, a cleric, a martial artist, a swashbuckler, a thief, and a wizard.
Thus, barbarian, bard, druid, holy warrior, and scout are all rather niche, in my experience. So are martial artist and swashbuckler, but they have some sort of "cool factor" that makes them more popular than they ought to be. The staples, of course, are the cleric (healing), knight (fighting), thief (traps), and wizard (general spell support). I'd be shocked to see a party that lacked more than one of those four! This ignores the two new professions in DF 4. I would put the artificer and scholar in the same boat as the other niche roles. I would expect to see the occasional artificer instead of a thief on a dungeon or urban adventure (but never on a wilderness one!), and the rare scholar in lieu of a bard, or instead of having both a martial artist and a swashbuckler, on an urban adventure.
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02-11-2009, 12:03 PM | #7 | |
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Re: [DF] Bardic power modifier - Singing or Playing? / Usefulness of Druids
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02-11-2009, 12:10 PM | #8 | |||
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Re: [DF] Bardic power modifier - Singing or Playing? / Usefulness of Druids
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Yes, Druidic DR is the most expensive, but it also looks like it is the most useful overall. |
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02-11-2009, 01:01 PM | #9 | |
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Austin, TX
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Re: [DF] Bardic power modifier - Singing or Playing? / Usefulness of Druids
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My group has generally preferred swashbucklers over knights; I don't know why. Thieves, wizards, and clerics are nearly required, as well as some kind of big fighting guy (barbarian/knight/holy warrior/munchkin swashbuckler). |
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02-11-2009, 03:01 PM | #10 | |||||
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Re: [DF] Bardic power modifier - Singing or Playing? / Usefulness of Druids
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(crushing damage; if not crushing, 10 points are needed) Quote:
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The key advantage of bards, barbarians and scouts, compared to druids, is *flexibility*. Scout and barbarians are quite well-rounded fighters, and can easily evolve into killing machines (only very few "combative" advantages are unavailable to them). So even if their niche is narrow, they can easily "mimic" a knight, and having some wilderness options is nice. Bards aren't very good at anything at 250 points, but they are quite free to improve... becoming either decent fighters or good spellcasters. Moreover they have access to social traits that from time to time are useful in every DF campaign (if only for buying/selling magic items). I feel the Druid is much less flexible than those other "niche" professions and so less appealing. Quote:
On the other hand, if they replace either the wizard or the cleric with a druid, they are probably DEAD :)
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Last edited by Lupo; 02-11-2009 at 03:12 PM. |
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