Steve Jackson Games - Site Navigation
Home General Info Follow Us Search Illuminator Store Forums What's New Other Games Ogre GURPS Munchkin Our Games: Home

Go Back   Steve Jackson Games Forums > Roleplaying > Traveller

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 07-24-2018, 08:16 PM   #1
jason taylor
 
jason taylor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Portland, Oregon
Default Collapsibles and Drop Tanks

As I understand the problem with these is that it detracts from the paradigm of having thick traffic routes, and therefore they need limitations. FT did not suggest what they were.

Two possible ones:

Collapsibles take up holdspace. They are only worth it for really high profit cargo.

Drop tanks require external craddles. And here's a thought: on a critical failure they can be lost in jump space leaving a ship stranded.
__________________
"The navy could probably win a war without coffee but would prefer not to try"-Samuel Eliot Morrison
jason taylor is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-25-2018, 02:08 AM   #2
ak_aramis
 
ak_aramis's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Alsea, OR
Default Re: Collapsibles and Drop Tanks

Quote:
Originally Posted by jason taylor View Post
As I understand the problem with these is that it detracts from the paradigm of having thick traffic routes, and therefore they need limitations. FT did not suggest what they were.

Two possible ones:

Collapsibles take up holdspace. They are only worth it for really high profit cargo.

Drop tanks require external craddles. And here's a thought: on a critical failure they can be lost in jump space leaving a ship stranded.
Canonically, yes, collapsibles take up cargo space when collapsed, and more when full. They're installed in the cargo bay.

Canonically, the tanks have to clear the 100 diameter limit of the ship or be destroyed.
ak_aramis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-25-2018, 09:49 AM   #3
Fred Brackin
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Default Re: Collapsibles and Drop Tanks

Quote:
Originally Posted by jason taylor View Post
A
Drop tanks require external craddles. And here's a thought: on a critical failure they can be lost in jump space leaving a ship stranded.
From _extremely_ finicky discussions involving drop tanks (during the GT:Starships palytest mostly) drop tanks can not be a ship's only fuel tanks. The drop tanks must be fed intot he regular tanks to refill empty tanks or fed through the regular tanks (and then dropped) when making extended Jumps.

So drop tanks or no drop tanks you still have your regular tanks and the normal opportunities to refuel so you might not be stranded. Maybe if yiou were trying to carry the tanks into a place where there was absolutely no way to refuel you could ahve this problem but that's not really very likely.

But soem of the reasosn GT:Starships has the Fiery-class with its' permanent tankage as a replacment for the Gazelle. you can take this as canon implying the the Gazelle-class was moslty a failure ad that is how I would take things IMTU.
__________________
Fred Brackin
Fred Brackin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-25-2018, 10:26 AM   #4
jason taylor
 
jason taylor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Portland, Oregon
Default Re: Collapsibles and Drop Tanks

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fred Brackin View Post
From _extremely_ finicky discussions involving drop tanks (during the GT:Starships palytest mostly) drop tanks can not be a ship's only fuel tanks. The drop tanks must be fed intot he regular tanks to refill empty tanks or fed through the regular tanks (and then dropped) when making extended Jumps.

So drop tanks or no drop tanks you still have your regular tanks and the normal opportunities to refuel so you might not be stranded. Maybe if yiou were trying to carry the tanks into a place where there was absolutely no way to refuel you could ahve this problem but that's not really very likely.
Surely, but I was envisioning using the main tanks to get to the mid point of the gap and the drops to finish. Though perhaps the reverse might be more efficient.
__________________
"The navy could probably win a war without coffee but would prefer not to try"-Samuel Eliot Morrison
jason taylor is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-25-2018, 11:18 AM   #5
Fred Brackin
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Default Re: Collapsibles and Drop Tanks

Quote:
Originally Posted by jason taylor View Post
Surely, but I was envisioning using the main tanks to get to the mid point of the gap and the drops to finish. Though perhaps the reverse might be more efficient.
No, by what several senior Grognards insisted was the way thing worked. You had to use the internal tankage first. Then you'd have retain your "drop" tanks for a full refuel at the target before your return.

A simpler system of carrying fuel for 2 jumps instead of just 1 makes more sense.
__________________
Fred Brackin
Fred Brackin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-25-2018, 01:54 PM   #6
jason taylor
 
jason taylor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Portland, Oregon
Default Re: Collapsibles and Drop Tanks

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fred Brackin View Post
No, by what several senior Grognards insisted was the way thing worked. You had to use the internal tankage first. Then you'd have retain your "drop" tanks for a full refuel at the target before your return.

A simpler system of carrying fuel for 2 jumps instead of just 1 makes more sense.
If so than in fact breaking the attachments in midjump will leave you stranded in space. Unless you brought spares along.
__________________
"The navy could probably win a war without coffee but would prefer not to try"-Samuel Eliot Morrison
jason taylor is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-25-2018, 02:18 PM   #7
Fred Brackin
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Default Re: Collapsibles and Drop Tanks

Quote:
Originally Posted by jason taylor View Post
If so than in fact breaking the attachments in midjump will leave you stranded in space. Unless you brought spares along.
You mean Jump space? Then no, one of the complexities that is necessary for the "initiate Jump but leave your drop tanks behind you" is that you use all H2 before entering Jump space.
__________________
Fred Brackin
Fred Brackin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-25-2018, 02:55 PM   #8
tanksoldier
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Default Re: Collapsibles and Drop Tanks

IMTU Gazelles are more successful, as escorts and patrol vessels in subsector navies and planetary defense fleets, but really only use their drops tanks for strategic mobility. Conversely the Fiery is much less successful being limited to J4 and 4Gs. It's also faster and less expensive than a Patrol Cruiser.

Admittedly IMTU most Gazelles have been refit with the alternate/optional missile racks in place of the PAs.

IIRC a Gazelle can J2 on internal fuel, can J4 retaining the tanks (jumping as a 400dt ship) and J5 dropping the tanks (and jumping as a 300dt ship)... or J2 into a system with tanks and have enough fuel to J2 out again without refueling if it drops the tanks then.

...and without tanks it's maneuver is 5Gs.

I envision Gazelles escorting merchants and/or patrolling along J1 or J2 mains, and drop tanks being available at bases and Class A & B starports... places where merchants don't actually have to be escorted much.

So a Gazelle leaves base, drops tanks and J5s out to begin a patrol... saving over 3 weeks and allowing patrol vessels to appear relatively far from bases and major starports quickly. If war is declared and all the Gazelles have to gather to begin escorting logistics convoys a Gazelle can do the equivalent of J9 in two weeks: J4 retaining tanks, refuel and drop the tanks for a J5.

With a little creativity that puts it anywhere in a subsector in two weeks.
tanksoldier is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-25-2018, 05:07 PM   #9
jason taylor
 
jason taylor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Portland, Oregon
Default Re: Collapsibles and Drop Tanks

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fred Brackin View Post
You mean Jump space? Then no, one of the complexities that is necessary for the "initiate Jump but leave your drop tanks behind you" is that you use all H2 before entering Jump space.
No, I don't mean stranded in jump space (that is a different problem, from a freak accident and dealt with by a lot of technobabble outside this thread). I mean one of the main reasons to use jump tanks would be to cross a gap. If in fact one had to come out of Jump space in the middle of a gap and the tank was lost, one is in sort of a Gilligan's Island position. I am assuming of course that tanks can come off in jump space. That is not in canon but is a reasonable limitation on their use.
__________________
"The navy could probably win a war without coffee but would prefer not to try"-Samuel Eliot Morrison
jason taylor is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-25-2018, 06:39 PM   #10
Fred Brackin
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Default Re: Collapsibles and Drop Tanks

Quote:
Originally Posted by jason taylor View Post
N. I am assuming of course that tanks can come off in jump space. That is not in canon but is a reasonable limitation on their use.
I wouldn't bother inventing new things to liit the use of jump tanks. I'd just pretend thye never existed unless somebody else brought up the Gazelle. The I'd dismiss that as a debacle and say "No one uses jump tanks any more.". They reasly are very complex to use and require special modifications to your ship.

collapsible tanks would be far more common and the usual rift-crosser is soemthing like a LASH tender with fuel tanks replacing some of the usual load.
__________________
Fred Brackin
Fred Brackin is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Fnords are Off
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 03:17 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.