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Old 06-09-2014, 01:02 PM   #1
GWJ
 
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Default [DF] Magic Bolt and Rapid Strike?

Should I (as GM) should allow for wizard with Magic Bolt (DF 11: Power-Ups), make attacks witt Rapid Strike, if we're using Rapid Strike with Thrown-Weapons from Martial arts?
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Old 06-09-2014, 01:03 PM   #2
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Default Re: [DF] Magic Bolt and Rapid Strike?

Entirely up to you. If you allow it for the PC(s), also allow it for the denizens of a dungeon. After all, fair is fair!
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Old 06-09-2014, 02:10 PM   #3
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Default Re: [DF] Magic Bolt and Rapid Strike?

Even if you don't allow it for the PCs, allow it for the denizens of the dungeon!
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Old 06-09-2014, 02:36 PM   #4
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Default Re: [DF] Magic Bolt and Rapid Strike?

I would not allow it. Ranged Innate Attacks lob multiple shots by adding the Rapid Fire enhancement. Only those with the Melee Attack limitation may use the Rapid Strike rules.
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Old 06-09-2014, 02:39 PM   #5
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Default Re: [DF] Magic Bolt and Rapid Strike?

Can you even use those melee attack options with innate attacks? I was under the impression you couldn't.

EDIT: Pah, ninja!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kromm View Post
Only those with the Melee Attack limitation may use the Rapid Strike rules.
Well that answers that then. Good to know to exact definition for when and where you can use those options.
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Old 06-09-2014, 02:42 PM   #6
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Default Re: [DF] Magic Bolt and Rapid Strike?

Quote:
Originally Posted by PseudoFenton View Post
Can you even use those melee attack options with innate attacks? I was under the impression you couldn't.
By RAW? No. House-ruled? The Rapid Strike penalties would be on top of range penalties.
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Old 06-09-2014, 02:56 PM   #7
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Default Re: [DF] Magic Bolt and Rapid Strike?

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Originally Posted by Nereidalbel View Post
By RAW? No. House-ruled? The Rapid Strike penalties would be on top of range penalties.
Charge an Unusual Background perk for it at least, then yeah maybe. Then perhaps even allow a Weapon Master for just this one attack for another 20 points to pull down the penalties and beef it up the damage a little.

I'd generally give the Rapid Strike power up a prerequisite of Magical Bolt 4 and the Weapon Master a prereq of Magical Bolt 6. It should be for dedicated blasters, not a generic upgrade that can be got at the first level of investment (especially considering multiple shots at close range makes even level 1 a very powerful option).
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Old 06-09-2014, 06:46 PM   #8
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Default Re: [DF] Magic Bolt and Rapid Strike?

Extra Attack(One attack only -%20)[20] might be more appropiate
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Old 06-10-2014, 03:20 AM   #9
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Default Re: [DF] Magic Bolt and Rapid Strike?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sense of Duty (Kittens) View Post
Extra Attack(One attack only -%20)[20] might be more appropiate
I dunno, adding Rapid Fire 3 (+50%) to the basic Magical Bolt build only costs at most 4 points at the maximum level, and even at level 3 only costs 2 points.

You're unlikely to realistically get more than 3 shots out of rapid strike - as you're also taking penalties for adding those extra shots (on top of the range penalties), so the cost should be even cheaper than the above. Admittedly you do-away with the chance of failure, so you're going to be getting the maximum number of shots you can get whilst keeping your effective skill as close to 3 without going under it. Even so, its still a -12 to effective skill for 3 shots, which even at skill 18 makes it miss anything beyond 7 yards.

All in all, a perk to gain this option should be fair. It stops just anyone doing it, making it something special for you, but also doesn't make it prohibitively expensive to a point of simply making it not worthwhile. Although I'd still caution that said perk should be limited to high investment into this attack, to stop everyone dipping into level 1 and picking it up.

Adding in your suggested Extra Attack (Only Magical Bolt, -20%) but called something like Magical Barrage [20] as a power-up - which basically says you can fire bolts from both hands simultaneously could be fun. Give it the prereq of Weapon Master (Magical Bolt) [20] (which in turn requires Magical Bolt 6) would make you a true artillery mage.

The inability to make any of these attacks deceptive (or more appropriately, Predictive as its a ranged attack) would make it still tough to hit anything with a decent dodge score (especially as dodge doesn't take penalties for multiple uses in a turn). So roguish classes with low DR and good dodge are still the bane of wizards, but this lets you do crippling damage to heavy fighters like the knight who rely on armour and getting up close.

If someone really loves the idea of sinking all their power into a (fairly boring and repetitive) attack that fills the air with crackling arcane power that can wear down even the toughest monster so long as they're slow enough to not get out of the way, then I say let them. Just make sure they pay the full 86 points to do so (or at least 26 points for the lowest rapid fire option), plus the extra investment into Innate Attack (Projectile) to raise it from its starting skill of 14 (which means an extra 12 points per extra bolt/second with Weapon Master, or two bolts/second if they have Magical Barrage, or 24 points per extra bolt otherwise).
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Old 06-10-2014, 01:43 PM   #10
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Default Re: [DF] Magic Bolt and Rapid Strike?

I would only allow rapid strike for Innate Attack that somehow was loaded with ammunition. That being said, someone can use Powers rules to Extra Effort in a Higher RoF on their Innate Attack.

Checks Powers book under extra effort. Make it a Technique if you want.
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