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Old 10-22-2020, 12:41 PM   #1
oneofmanynameless
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: New Hampshire, USA
Default Buildable Environment for environmental limitation

What should the environmental limitation rarity be for an environment that almost never naturally exists in nature, and is easily destroyed or avoided by foes, but can be properly constructed with an appropriate tool-kit and an average of 10 minutes to 1 hour of work by a skilled craftsman?

Common rarity appears to assume that the environment is common enough that the onus is on the foe to try to avoid it rather than the user to try to arrange for it. "in contact with dust or in the presence of microbes"

Rare rarity implies that it's rare enough the user has to try to arrange for it, but that it's also difficult to arrange for. "in a storm, dense vegetation, the desert, or underground"

Is this occasional?

The equivalent "preparation required (10 minutes) + takes skill check" would average out to be -40%, or -60% if requires 1 hour of preparation. But that only works once per ability use and the environmental is reusable once attained and so seems like it should be less of a limitation.
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Old 10-22-2020, 02:05 PM   #2
Imbicatus
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Default Re: Buildable Environment for environmental limitation

Accessibility limitations apply on how common the limitation actually is, not on if that condition is natural or not. If the use can make that condition anywhere with prep time, then it is very common, even if it is non-existent naturally. I’d give a -10% to -20% limitation at most, depending on how difficult the prep is.
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Old 10-22-2020, 06:15 PM   #3
Plane
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Default Re: Buildable Environment for environmental limitation

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Originally Posted by Imbicatus View Post
If the use can make that condition anywhere with prep time, then it is very common

I’d give a -10% to -20% limitation at most, depending on how difficult the prep is.
I would posit that "Anchor" for Warp could be a useful guideline for locations here.

P89 assigns -50% if you can only warp to a location which you can reassign with 1 minute of prep at that location, compared to -80% for a location which you can't reassign.

S25 assigns -40% for "anchored to your own body" conversely (instant reassignment) intended for Affliction Warp (bring things to you by shooting them, IE you are Scorpion from Mortal Kombat)
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Old 10-23-2020, 11:21 AM   #4
oneofmanynameless
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: New Hampshire, USA
Default Re: Buildable Environment for environmental limitation

Quote:
Originally Posted by Plane View Post
I would posit that "Anchor" for Warp could be a useful guideline for locations here.

P89 assigns -50% if you can only warp to a location which you can reassign with 1 minute of prep at that location, compared to -80% for a location which you can't reassign.

S25 assigns -40% for "anchored to your own body" conversely (instant reassignment) intended for Affliction Warp (bring things to you by shooting them, IE you are Scorpion from Mortal Kombat)
-50% does sort of align with the preparation required +some extra for the reduced lack of mobility. On a movement ability "Can only warp too a prepared location" seems a larger limitation than "Can only warp from a prepared location" for an equal quantity of preparation required. Preparation required 1 minute is -20%, but considering you don't have to do the preparation every time it should be less. Which implies that the "teleport too instead of from" is in the range of -30% - -40%.

Idk, how would you use that as a guideline? Generally I trust your knowledge of the rules and work with it, based on other threads.
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Old 10-23-2020, 03:25 PM   #5
Plane
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Default Re: Buildable Environment for environmental limitation

Quote:
Originally Posted by oneofmanynameless View Post
-50% does sort of align with the preparation required +some extra for the reduced lack of mobility.
Good point I forgot about Prep Required. The only difference I guess is also that y ou can only have one 'prep required' ability prepped simultaneously while Anchored Warp wouldn't count as that.

I think that might actually be "Immediate Prep Required: 1 minute" which is -30% instead of -20%, but that's applied to something else which allows one to rearrange a fixed anchor...

Fixed Anchor is -80%...
Not Fixed Anchor would be +80%...
so 1 minute of prep would normally allow you 1 minute's worth of "unanchored" warp.

But what we're looking for is "respecify your anchor" instead...

Yeah I'm lost... needs more pondering

Variable Enhancements would allow you to design custom limitations (by arranging enhancements into anything you like) and doing a 1/5 "Fixed Anchor" Limited Enhancement is going to make any points you buy go further...

VE +10% buys you +1% of arrangeable enhancements, but you could buy +5% enhancements instead if they're anchored.

So you could take "reliable to fixed anchor" and attune yourself to any specified position... and if that took 1 minute to do, VE+10% reduces to VE+7%

It's not appealing since you could pay less (+5%) to ALWAYS get +1...

But if we assume "I can specify ANYWHERE as my anchor" is how this normally works, if it's just "I need to be present to specify it as my anchor" this should be some kind of limit to how Variable Enhancements works.

If I had VE+10% but any Reliability I design with it can only work in respect to something within 10 yards at the time I rearrange my points, should that qualify for Range Limit -50% applied to VE+10% to reduce it to VE+5%? Applying the -30% as well would reduce it to VE+2%

That basically means paying 2 character points instead of 5 character points to gain a +1 to warp, but only to a single place you've been within 10 yards of for 60 seconds attunement...

That's pretty close (-60% instead of -50%) to the moveable anchor thing...

So I probably went too far with Range Limit -50%...

I need to figure what lesser version of RL would make it tie and that's probably how far away you would need to be to 'attune yourself' to a new location since it never actually specifies the distance (unless it actually means touch?)
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Old 10-23-2020, 08:25 PM   #6
oneofmanynameless
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: New Hampshire, USA
Default Re: Buildable Environment for environmental limitation

Would knowing the actual intended use case be helpful?

I'm thinking about abilities that require having a specially prepared ritual circle, or alter, in order to use. Hence it being thoroughly avoid-able and unlikely to find an appropriate space, but is also constructible with appropriate equipment and an appropriate skill and 10 minutes to an hour of work.
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Old 10-23-2020, 09:38 PM   #7
Plane
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Default Re: Buildable Environment for environmental limitation

Quote:
Originally Posted by oneofmanynameless View Post
thoroughly avoid-able and unlikely to find an appropriate space

also constructible with appropriate equipment and an appropriate skill
and 10 minutes to an hour of work.
Aside from Anchored for Warp, some of the Dependency in Horror seems sorta related? H77 "Bad Places" for Ghosts:
Dependency: One specific Bad Place (its tomb or “the Old Halloran Place”) counts as “Occasional” (base -20 points);
H79 "Dependency (Domain; Constantly) [-100]," uses that (B130 it's x5 for Constantly)

So if "place I can't move" is Occasional then "place I can move" should definitely be at least Common, and "Very Common" if it was very easy to mov it. The problem is just how much time is needed to shift between tiers.
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Old 10-24-2020, 02:38 AM   #8
WingedKagouti
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Default Re: Buildable Environment for environmental limitation

Quote:
Originally Posted by oneofmanynameless View Post
Would knowing the actual intended use case be helpful?

I'm thinking about abilities that require having a specially prepared ritual circle, or alter, in order to use. Hence it being thoroughly avoid-able and unlikely to find an appropriate space, but is also constructible with appropriate equipment and an appropriate skill and 10 minutes to an hour of work.
If using the abilities do not consume the circle/altar, I'd go with the very first suggestion in the thread: Environmental -10% or -20% depending on the time and skill needed to construct the circle/altar.

In that scenario, once you've done the construction you're free to use the abilities as many times as you want in that area without doing any further preparation. If an ability has further requirements, that would be handled by additional limitations.

If the abilities consume the circle/altar, you use the Preparation Required limitation instead.
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