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10-11-2018, 04:13 PM   #41
platimus

Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: behind you
Re: How do you all handle mounted combat?

Quote:
 Originally Posted by hcobb A figure running at MA 10 in a one-hex diameter circle is pulling 40% of one G. Just how good is their footing?
LOL Yeah! That's what I'm talkin'bout! Turning that much slows most things down.

10-11-2018, 11:20 PM   #42
Skarg

Join Date: May 2015
Re: How do you all handle mounted combat?

Quote:
 Originally Posted by hcobb A figure running at MA 10 in a one-hex diameter circle is pulling 40% of one G. Just how good is their footing?
* MA of only 6 would get you back where you started, so running in a circle at MA 10 would be a uselessly twisty maneuver in TFT.

* I think you mean going in circles around one hex, which would be a radius of 4 feet, so actually 0.55g.

* Nevertheless, it does not seem very hard to do, to me. I put a chair where there was enough space to go around it at about 4 foot radius, and shuffled in a slight hurry around it ten times, timing it with a stop watch. It was a slow jog, and I was in no danger of falling down. I did start to feel slightly dizzy after ten laps. It took me 33.46 seconds on the first try, not really trying to be fast. So about 3 1/3 seconds to go 6 hexes in a circle. Looks like I managed MA 8.97, call it MA 9, with no danger and not particularly trying to be fast. I certainly was not feeling terrible G forces.

Quote:
 Originally Posted by hcobb Divide a figure's intended movement in hexes by 3 and round down. This is how many dice they need to roll against DX to turn 60 degrees after entering each hex or fall down. For every hex they move directly forwards subtract one die from the roll.
Interesting idea for a mechanic. So that translates to:

For MA used:
1-5: no worries
6-8: you need to move one directly forward before each 60 degree turn, or roll 2/DX or fall.
9-11: 3/DX minus one for each hex directly forward
12-14: 4/DX minus one for each hex forward, so 3 forward per turn for no risk
15-17: 5/DX "" "", 4 fwd/turn for no risk
18-20: 6/DX "" "", 5 fwd/turn for no risk
21-23: 7/DX "" "", 6 fwd/turn for no risk
24-26: 8/DX "" "", 7 fwd/turn for no risk
27-29: 9/DX "" "", 8 fwd/turn for no risk
30-33: 10/DX "" "", 9 fwd/turn for no risk

According to this, though, I would have had to make 60 die rolls to run around the chair like I did. I think even if they were all 2-die rolls with no auto-failure, it would not challenge any reasonably mobile person.

10-12-2018, 06:34 AM   #43
hcobb

Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Pacheco, California
Re: How do you all handle mounted combat?

Quote:
 Originally Posted by Skarg According to this, though, I would have had to make 60 die rolls to run around the chair like I did. I think even if they were all 2-die rolls with no auto-failure, it would not challenge any reasonably mobile person.
Were you using dark ages footwear on a slippery dungeon floor?
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 10-12-2018, 07:36 AM #44 platimus   Join Date: Dec 2017 Location: behind you Re: How do you all handle mounted combat? Back to the topic of horses and movement... I'm curious if the way I handle horse movement is different from everyone else... If a horse starts with both hexes adjacent to a megahex, how many moves does it take the horse to travel around the megahex and return to his starting hexes? I count 12 moves. (6 if you replace the megahex with 1 hex) Also, if you allow the horse to turn 360 degrees in-place by keeping its rear (or front) hex stationary, that also takes 6 moves. All of this makes me wonder if we really need special rules to slow down a horse or restrict it's ability to turn. Last edited by platimus; 10-12-2018 at 08:01 AM.
 10-12-2018, 08:45 AM #45 platimus   Join Date: Dec 2017 Location: behind you Re: How do you all handle mounted combat? Here is a visual aid: https://imgur.com/M3UuHRK Frame 1 is the starting position of the horse. The horses "head" is the blue hex. The horses "rear" is the red hex. The hexes are numbered so you know we're dealing with the same hexes in each frame. It is _not possible_ for the horse to go from Frame 1 to Frame 2 in one move (1 MA). It would take 2 moves (2 MA) for the horse to end up in this position. The first move would look like Frame 3 (head moves). The second move (rear moves) would look like Frame 2. This is so intuitive and natural to me, I'm having a hard time explaining why it should work that way... If you allow going from Frame 1 to Frame 2 in one move (1 MA), you're allowing the head and rear to move in different directions at the same time - which is impossible. Last edited by platimus; 10-12-2018 at 08:56 AM.
10-12-2018, 11:48 AM   #46
Skarg

Join Date: May 2015
Re: How do you all handle mounted combat?

Quote:
 Originally Posted by hcobb Were you using dark ages footwear on a slippery dungeon floor?
Do socks on carpet count? Try it out - I was just shuffling along, not doing anything athletic.

10-12-2018, 12:08 PM   #47
Skarg

Join Date: May 2015
Re: How do you all handle mounted combat?

Quote:
 Originally Posted by platimus Back to the topic of horses and movement... I'm curious if the way I handle horse movement is different from everyone else... If a horse starts with both hexes adjacent to a megahex, how many moves does it take the horse to travel around the megahex and return to his starting hexes? I count 12 moves. (6 if you replace the megahex with 1 hex) Also, if you allow the horse to turn 360 degrees in-place by keeping its rear (or front) hex stationary, that also takes 6 moves.
Yes.

Quote:
 Originally Posted by platimus All of this makes me wonder if we really need special rules to slow down a horse or restrict it's ability to turn.
The reason we need it is realism and avoiding cheesy run-around attacks and other abusive tactics. With quite high MA (typically 14-16) and the rider's ability to get carried for that full MA and still attack, cavalry can stay far out of enemy engagement range until it wins initiative. Then when it wins initiative, it makes the other side move first and then swoops in with its high MA (and not being engaged by single footmen), and takes side/rear attacks, also making pushes to knock some foes down.

Some of that feels appropriate and realistic enough, but not so much when it involves a horse moving 10-12 in a straight line plus another 4-6 in a sharp curve around people's front hexes to hit them in the side/rear. Something like it can also be done against other mounted figures. The part that feels really off is where the high MA is allowing essentially picking any hex withing 14-16 hexes to be in, and the fast straight-line movement with a tight hook at the end.

10-12-2018, 12:10 PM   #48
platimus

Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: behind you
Re: How do you all handle mounted combat?

Quote:
 Originally Posted by Skarg Do socks on carpet count? Try it out - I was just shuffling along, not doing anything athletic.
Good thing you weren't wearing Air Jordans. You might have achieved orbit! LOL

10-12-2018, 12:11 PM   #49
Skarg

Join Date: May 2015
Re: How do you all handle mounted combat?

Quote:
 Originally Posted by platimus Here is a visual aid: https://imgur.com/M3UuHRK Frame 1 is the starting position of the horse. The horses "head" is the blue hex. The horses "rear" is the red hex. The hexes are numbered so you know we're dealing with the same hexes in each frame. It is _not possible_ for the horse to go from Frame 1 to Frame 2 in one move (1 MA). It would take 2 moves (2 MA) for the horse to end up in this position. The first move would look like Frame 3 (head moves). The second move (rear moves) would look like Frame 2. This is so intuitive and natural to me, I'm having a hard time explaining why it should work that way... If you allow going from Frame 1 to Frame 2 in one move (1 MA), you're allowing the head and rear to move in different directions at the same time - which is impossible.
That's true, but if a horse had it's head in hex 1 and it's rear in hex 5, it could turn for 1 MA by moving its head to hex 7 with its rear following into hex 1.

10-12-2018, 12:39 PM   #50
platimus

Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: behind you
Re: How do you all handle mounted combat?

Quote:
 Originally Posted by Skarg That's true, but if a horse had it's head in hex 1 and it's rear in hex 5, it could turn for 1 MA by moving its head to hex 7 with its rear following into hex 1.
Yes, that's true and it's the same movement cost of (head in 2, rear in 1) pivoting on its rear to end up (head in 7, rear in 1).

I would say "just add an extra 1 MA cost every time a horse changes directions" (which it can only logically do by 60 degrees while in mid-movement) but then you've got the situations where it's moving against the grain of the hexes.

This leads me back to my original suggestion of movement stopping if facing changes more than 60 degrees from the start of movement. After trying to create a visual aid for that, I realized "facing" isn't the best terminology as facing is so fluid during movement. Also, "movement stopping" might be a bit extreme. So maybe...

"If a figure's direction of travel changes by more than 60 degrees, remaining MA is halved"

Last edited by platimus; 10-12-2018 at 01:18 PM.

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