[Basic] Advantage of the Week (#27): Common Sense, Intuition

[Refplace]

Originally Posted by NineDaysDead

Why? It seems like Savoir-Faire roll to me. Maybe at a bonus but if you're operating from a default of IQ-4...

Which is a better way IMHO than the Appearance Roll method of handling most Common Sense or Intuition things. IQ is the default but like most things you can float it, in this case to that Savior-Faire roll as long as its not worse than an IQ roll would have been.
I have done this for Intuition and Demolitions skill for example. I think it was Professional Skill EOD

[Otaku]

Originally Posted by whswhs

I'm really not seeing that, and the reason is that it gives a bonus to rolls that the player would be making anyway.

Originally Posted by malloyd

The idea here is that if a player announces he's going to start a fight at the Emperor's Birthday, the GM normally *shouldn't roll*. Every player, whether he has Common Sense or not, should be told that's a stupid idea.

Was this meant to be about rolls that the player would not be making (rolling) at all, instead of rolls they would be making? "Making a roll" can refer to succeeding at the roll (such as with a Skill check), or it could mean the act of rolling the dice; I took it as the latter.

If something is so obvious that the character ought to know, no rolls required, then I don't roll for Common Sense; in fact, I wouldn't require Common Sense at all. Well, perhaps if the character in question had another trait that could potential override this basic level of knowledge and intelligence.

[Otaku]

Originally Posted by Refplace

Which is a better way IMHO than the Appearance Roll method of handling most Common Sense or Intuition things. IQ is the default but like most things you can float it, in this case to that Savior-Faire roll as long as its not worse than an IQ roll would have been.
I have done this for Intuition and Demolitions skill for example. I think it was Professional Skill EOD

Getting to what I said, I probably wouldn't require a player have Common Sense to roll against some of these things. It stems with the disconnect between player and PC; the player may not realize he just stated his character was about to make a boneheaded move, but unless that character is built to be that stupid, seems like I as GM ought to say something, or at least roll versus the relevant score (Attribute, Skill, whatever) to see if the character realizes it. Unless it is so obvious a roll shouldn't even be required.

With either a RAW version of Common Sense or one of my proposed alternatives, if a situation arose where Common Sense roll was relevant, and the character in question had something other than IQ that seemed pertinent (like a relevant Skill), I'd just have a roll against one to provide a bonus to the other. Using the Frequency of Appearance modifier (hypothetical) house rule, I'd... do the same thing.

[whswhs]

Originally Posted by Otaku

Was this meant to be about rolls that the player would not be making (rolling) at all, instead of rolls they would be making? "Making a roll" can refer to succeeding at the roll (such as with a Skill check), or it could mean the act of rolling the dice; I took it as the latter.

I don't understand the distinction you're making. Whether it's the player or the GM who rolls the dice is not that important.

If something is so obvious that the character ought to know, no rolls required, then I don't roll for Common Sense; in fact, I wouldn't require Common Sense at all. Well, perhaps if the character in question had another trait that could potential override this basic level of knowledge and intelligence.

Common Sense is for things that are so obvious that the character ought to know them, but that the player does not—not because the player lacks knowledge of the game world, but because the player doesn't understand or doesn't remember important things about the real physical or social world. Some players are like that. It's a way for the GM to let such people play without having them destroy the entire game by repeated idiotic actions.

[Overheat]

Common Sense seems nearly useless as written. If somebody in my game took it, I would try my best to make it worth the points, but even then, 10 is a lot.

Common Sense with +50% Conscious though- is one of the most powerful things you can do in the game. At the very least it lets you see the railroad tracks underneath your feet.

Also, turning all GM nudging into your spotlight time as a player is certainly worth 15 points for some concepts.

[Otaku]

Originally Posted by whswhs

I don't understand the distinction you're making. Whether it's the player or the GM who rolls the dice is not that important.

I can tell you don't understand because you bring up not understanding one aspect of the discussion, then you jump to another. Now if you are certain said aspects are related, hopefully, this helps you realize I still do not understand your earlier post.

[dripton]

I like Common Sense in theory. But I've never seen a PC with it in practice. I think because people who play GURPS mostly think they're too smart to need it.

I like Intuition in theory. But I've only played one PC with it, and I don't think I got any real use out of it. Unless you're totally stuck, it's more fun to decide for yourself than to ask the GM for a roll.

I run a DF game where the party features an NPC cleric. The players occasionally have the bright idea to ask him what to do when they're stuck. Pretty obvious place to give an NPC Common Sense to help the players out of jams. But I didn't do that, because the point of RPGs is that the players make decisions. If you give them an NPC who'll tell them what to do, I think it cheapens the game. So he mostly says some religious nonsense and defers back to the wizard, who should clearly know what to do, with his IQ 15 and pointy ears.

[vicky_molokh]

Originally Posted by D10

Im currently playing a PC with intuition and it just doesnt feel right ...

I feel like the premisse was good, but it should have been designed like Precognition, in which the default mode is passive advice the GM would hint you toward with a successful die roll, and a minoritary active use similar to the existing rules.

The act of arguing with people over what is a reasonable question, what I want out of my insight, and etc. is quite tiring. Unless im facing some kind of mystery door choice where the number is clear and finite, im getting huge penalties because the GM assumes there are dozens of ways to answer most questions.

A practical example, we were folling some badguys, and they ended up getting reinforcements that make us attacking them a non-option until the two groups separated. I wanted to use my intuition to help me figure out if building a makeshit boat and going downriver to try to intercept the desired bad guys group alone. We already knew they would split and that it was a possibility. But we didnt knew if they would get more reinforcements, if they would be vulnerable at some point and I wanted my intuition to give me info about that. In the end I was told my idea could work, which I suppose is what the advantage is supposed to do most of the time.

Im being able to use it to answer more yes/no questions, such as "is X lying about Y?" or "is Z really who he says he is?" "Is there something of value for me in N place?", "is X really dead/bad/true?", "Should I keep this?" etc.

It is my impression that Intuition's reasonable question is always one with enumerated options, and that it gives an answer by pointing mostly in the direction of one of the options. E.g. options being "If we want the greatest chance of success in our assault, do we (a) use a small covert ops team from the back entrance, (b) take the whole platoon from the flank, (c) keep searching for a third option because the others are really really bad". I found this sort of usage both as a GM and a player to be pretty clear, and to be quite beneficial for the PC and player.

[NineDaysDead]

Originally Posted by vicky_molokh

It is my impression that Intuition's reasonable question is always one with enumerated options,

I've quote a rule in this thread that says otherwise.

[vicky_molokh]

Originally Posted by NineDaysDead

I've quote a rule in this thread that says otherwise.

But that's an unusual usage, not the standard one. Most of the time as a players I didn't even need it (a few situations I didn't know about it and might've benefitted from it, but that's a minority).