Exotic Governmental/Legal Systems

[Anders]

There's also Klingon Promotion.

Kill your superior and take his place.

[Agemegos]

Originally Posted by Anders

There's also Klingon Promotion.

Kill your superior and take his place.

This was called "Progress Through Assassination" in the ForeSight society generator, where it was noted that in some cases it might be a character assassination that produced the opportunity for promotion.

[jason taylor]

Originally Posted by Anders

There's also Klingon Promotion.

Kill your superior and take his place.

I think we call that "electoral democracy".

[Johnny1A.2]

Originally Posted by Varyon

That actually sounds like it could be somewhat stable, thanks to the demotion caveat (which puts the statesman back in a position where he/she has proven competence). Using the original premise, that each person rises to and stays in a position within which he/she is incompetent, would likely be more problematic (as you could eventually end up with every office in the nation held by someone who is incompetent at that job).

There are several practical issues with it that would probably keep it from last too very long.

For one thing, when you promote John to Level 5, that creates an opening on Level 4. If John is to be demoted back to L4, what happens to his replacement? There are ways around that issue, but it's there.

Also, and more fundamentally, except in special cases, it's very, very hard to quantify 'competence'. Someone has to make that determination, and it's going to be subjective (again, except in special cases where outcomes are easily and objectively measurable, which is the exception).

For ex, John is the new manager of Blank Department. Overall performance efficiency is lower under John than it was under his predecessor. Whatever job Blank Department does is not getting done quite as well. BUT...personnel turnover is lower, morale is higher, and there are fewer public complaints under John than his predecessor. It seems he's not quite as good at the technical aspects of the job but better with people. So which should the decision-maker prioritize?

In reality, it would get a lot more complicated and messy than that.

[Varyon]

Originally Posted by Johnny1A.2

For one thing, when you promote John to Level 5, that creates an opening on Level 4. If John is to be demoted back to L4, what happens to his replacement? There are ways around that issue, but it's there.

If you don’t have any slots left for John in L4, well, a new slot is opening in L5, so you basically have John trade spots with someone in L4.

Originally Posted by Johnny1A.2

Also, and more fundamentally, except in special cases, it's very, very hard to quantify 'competence'. Someone has to make that determination, and it's going to be subjective (again, except in special cases where outcomes are easily and objectively measurable, which is the exception).

A lot of places have specific performance metrics for various positions, which can help make a call between promotion and demotion, but yes there will likely ultimately be a judgement call made.

The system would be highly flawed, but I could see it having a certain degree of stability.

[jason taylor]

Originally Posted by Johnny1A.2

There are several practical issues with it that would probably keep it from last too very long.

For one thing, when you promote John to Level 5, that creates an opening on Level 4. If John is to be demoted back to L4, what happens to his replacement? There are ways around that issue, but it's there.

Also, and more fundamentally, except in special cases, it's very, very hard to quantify 'competence'. Someone has to make that determination, and it's going to be subjective (again, except in special cases where outcomes are easily and objectively measurable, which is the exception).

For ex, John is the new manager of Blank Department. Overall performance efficiency is lower under John than it was under his predecessor. Whatever job Blank Department does is not getting done quite as well. BUT...personnel turnover is lower, morale is higher, and there are fewer public complaints under John than his predecessor. It seems he's not quite as good at the technical aspects of the job but better with people. So which should the decision-maker prioritize?

In reality, it would get a lot more complicated and messy than that.

It is hardly necessary for authority to be the natural reward for gain in seniority. Though that gets to the complication of jamming up the chain of command. But noncoms have been taking orders from wet-behind-the-ears subalterns for ages.

[Inky]

These have to be systems for humans, right? (Or not - there was at least one previous one that mentioned brain implants, so maybe that means exotic features - in the GURPS sense - are allowed.)

A telepathic/ESP-using species might have some system involving "divination" or "the will of the gods" that actually worked. This might be susceptible to interference by some other telepathic being - the priest might not be talking to who xe thought xe was talking to. In fact, you don't even need the leaders to have exotic powers for that plot - even Roman augury could be hacked by a time traveller with the right ultrasonic/magnetic/whatever kit and natural history knowledge to get the birds to fly the wrong way.

[jason taylor]

There is an aristocracy. Either a closely regulated one of the Anglic format. Or a hack-commoners-down-if-they-are-uppity kind (under the circumstances probably closer to the former as it is harder to form subkingdoms).

The twist is, instead of an agrarian aristocracy it is a mercantile one. The second twist is that it is considered unworthy to compete directly with traders. For that reason fiefs consist of ships which are chartered to the actual traders. Many of the same laws that formerly went with land are applied to ships.

Other details can be worked out. The lender and borrower can provide other services for each other such as insurance, political lobbying, sponsor of navigational academies, armed protection (directly or by negotiation with the head of state). The borrower can provide besides a lease or profit share, intelligence, jobs for relations of his sponsor (sometimes under the table if the sponsor wants to keep quiet about that) and so forth.

[Anders]

There was a Roman emperor who appointed public officials on the basis on the size of their genitalia. Pubic officials, if you will.

[johndallman]

Originally Posted by jason taylor

. . . fiefs consist of ships which are chartered to the actual traders. Many of the same laws that formerly went with land are applied to ships.

Low-tech shipping is a chancy business, both in terms of shipwrecks and voyage times. More ships can be built, however, fairly cheaply. What prevents merchants from having ships built that they own themselves?

Land, in contrast, does not go away easily, and it's very hard to make more.