05-19-2019, 01:42 PM | #31 |
Join Date: Feb 2016
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Re: Spearmen: Not as good against Swordsmen as you might think
Staff defaults to Spear-2, so it grants a net +1 to Parry (which is worth 1 CP).
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05-20-2019, 06:27 AM | #32 | |
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Brighton
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Re: Spearmen: Not as good against Swordsmen as you might think
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IIRC there's an important caveat to it which he points on his channel, the HEMA chaps are much more experienced with sword (with or without shield) than with spear (with or without shield*). Now that doesn't necessarily invalidate the points being made in abstract i.e. the sword has to get past the spear and into close range. But it is relevent for the practical results *IIRC Spear and shield does really badly in the video as they all struggle to control the spear one handed? (when in small groups they also break formation v.quickly because they're used to one on one sword fights!)
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Grand High* Poobah of the Cult of Stat Normalisation. *not too high of course Last edited by Tomsdad; 05-20-2019 at 06:32 AM. |
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05-20-2019, 07:05 AM | #33 |
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Brighton
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Re: Spearmen: Not as good against Swordsmen as you might think
One thing that the video does show is with Sword and shield how often they used the shield to immobilise or keep the spear out of position to allow a follow up attack form the sword that was very hard for the spear wielders to defend against.
I'm guessing in RAW this would be a beat or a feint with the shield. Likely with some points in 2 weapon combo "beat/feint with shield, stab with sword" if it was done quickly and you didn't want to spend a FP or lose defence doing a AoA(dbl). Although you could also set up a wait in order to beat then attack, is the spear wielder is being aggressive I think you should be able to use shield to Bind weapon as well as and aside I might be tempted to add the shield's DB to a beat QC, as a big shield is actually quite good for tying up, imposing itself between or otherwise keeping an opponent's weapon out of position unless they disengage, but it might be a bit over powered* (I might have to think of some kind balancing effect here) *shields are good though!
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05-20-2019, 07:14 AM | #34 |
Join Date: Feb 2016
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Re: Spearmen: Not as good against Swordsmen as you might think
The same thing could be done with a shield/spear combo, though the problem with a shield beat are the penalties associated with doing it at the same time as an attack. I would suggest that it would be better done with a spear than a sword, as nearly every army in history trained with shield and spear (the Romans being the primary exception, as they used javelin to remove their opponents' shields).
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05-20-2019, 07:42 AM | #35 | |
Doctor of GURPS Ballistics
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Lakeville, MN
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Re: Spearmen: Not as good against Swordsmen as you might think
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Our way isn't the only way, but I've trained very active "grappling" with the edge of the shield.
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05-20-2019, 08:22 AM | #36 | ||
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Brighton
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Re: Spearmen: Not as good against Swordsmen as you might think
Yep, although you can step in with a shorter weapon while doing this (I'd probably let someone beat with their shield against a spear that had just attacked at the reach of the spear, to make this work with the rules). So it would be beat, step and attack. It might work well as a committed attack to either keep a step to counter the spear man retreating (he's trying to keep distance), or to really get into his armpit*! You lose both parry and block and you're left with dodge at -2 as a defence but the spear man should be left either with a stab wound or out of position himself maybe trying to get his weapon ready at a new reach etc, etc *all this depends on what kind of spear and sword we're talking about and what the relative difference in reach is. Quote:
TBH even if you do space it out over two actions, you can still block in between but you give your opponent a chance to move again. (the down side to doing a dbl combo with a feint is that since you're not making two attacks you don't get the option to penalise your targets defence if they're relying on the same one. But since I rule I'd allow the beat to work at the spear's reach, that to me is worth it) Quote:
IIRC the HEMA chaps didn't do well with spear and shield but that was because they had little experience of trying to keep a spear moving one handed, they didn't do well maintaining a shield formation either when they did groups!
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Grand High* Poobah of the Cult of Stat Normalisation. *not too high of course Last edited by Tomsdad; 05-20-2019 at 08:56 AM. |
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05-20-2019, 08:33 AM | #37 | |
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Brighton
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Re: Spearmen: Not as good against Swordsmen as you might think
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Grand High* Poobah of the Cult of Stat Normalisation. *not too high of course Last edited by Tomsdad; 05-20-2019 at 08:45 AM. |
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05-20-2019, 11:17 AM | #38 |
Banned
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: 100 hurricane swamp
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Re: Spearmen: Not as good against Swordsmen as you might think
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05-20-2019, 11:25 AM | #39 |
Join Date: Feb 2016
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Re: Spearmen: Not as good against Swordsmen as you might think
Usually, though there are exceptions, as two-handed weapons tend to deal more damage. I would much rather have a shield and a fine spear than just a fine spear though. When facing shields though, pilum are a fine solution to the problem, especially if you use a spear thrower to improve the damage and distance. It is strange that the Romans never faced an army equipped with spear throwers, as they were prehistoric weapons found everywhere.
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05-20-2019, 01:42 PM | #40 |
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Snoopy's basement
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Re: Spearmen: Not as good against Swordsmen as you might think
Even a piece of field artillery couldn't stand up against my swordsman when he attacked from 5 yards away.
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