05-15-2019, 05:12 PM | #21 |
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Berkeley, CA
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Re: What are the senses of a wolf image or illusion?
That argues for (4) the illusion can see what observers think it should be able to see.
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05-15-2019, 05:48 PM | #22 |
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Dayton, Ohio
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Re: What are the senses of a wolf image or illusion?
Sort of, but that's functionally identical to having its own senses. It would not, for example, mean that the Illusion can "see" the party's Thief pal, hiding behind the curtain, just because the party knows he's hiding there.
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05-15-2019, 06:00 PM | #23 |
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Berkeley, CA
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Re: What are the senses of a wolf image or illusion?
No, it has its own set of anomalies like an illusion being unable to see someone who didn't know it was there (I would avoid this version, it's a hassle).
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05-16-2019, 02:24 AM | #24 | |
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Arizona
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Re: What are the senses of a wolf image or illusion?
Quote:
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05-16-2019, 02:41 AM | #25 | |
Join Date: Mar 2018
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Re: What are the senses of a wolf image or illusion?
Quote:
Second, it means that the illusion is still a mental phenomenon of the observers, which I happen to like. It means the beliefs of the observers all contribute to the power of the illusion. |
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05-16-2019, 05:23 AM | #26 |
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Dayton, Ohio
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Re: What are the senses of a wolf image or illusion?
But then the Question arises: CAN the Illusion see (or otherwise sense) the Thief hiding behind the curtain, based on the other observers' knowledge of his presence? What if there are no others, and the Thief is alone (but still hidden)?
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05-16-2019, 07:01 AM | #27 |
Join Date: Mar 2018
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Re: What are the senses of a wolf image or illusion?
Short answer -- I've typed and deleted a bunch of answers, really not sure!
Let's go with the idea that the illusion reflects the beliefs of the observers. If the observers think the illusion should know about something, then the illusion would act in that way, and otherwise not. Scenario 1. Two figures: (1) a wizard creating a wolf illusion; (2) a thief who, unknown to the wizard, is hidden behind the curtain. The thief can see the wizard and the illusion. No one in this case has a belief that the wolf should see the thief, and so the illusion doesn't. Scenario 2. Same two figures and conditions, but this time the illusion is of a bloodhound. The thief might believe the bloodhound COULD sniff out her presence. Maybe it does...? Scenario 3. Same as scenario 1, but the wizard directs the wolf to poke its head behind the curtain. The thief now believes that the wolf can see her, and so it does. Scenario 4. Similar to scenario 3, except this time, for whatever reason, the thief can't sense the wizard. Now the thief has no belief for or against the illusion, and the thief's beliefs aren't part of the illusion's "knot of force". In this case the illusion can't take into account the thief's beliefs. This is like sending an illusory bird over the castle wall. The people behind the wall have no beliefs about the illusion and so the illusion doesn't see behind the wall. |
05-16-2019, 01:07 PM | #28 |
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Berkeley, CA
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Re: What are the senses of a wolf image or illusion?
It makes a certain amount of sense, but it's a gigantic pain to adjudicate unless you don't make illusions have shared visibility (i.e. different observers see different behavior from the same illusion. The thief behind the curtain sees the dog bark at him, the wizard doesn't...), so I would avoid it.
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05-16-2019, 01:32 PM | #29 |
Join Date: Mar 2018
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Re: What are the senses of a wolf image or illusion?
If the illusion can see what observers believe it can see, then to almost all intents and purposes, in a typical battle the illusion can behave like it has its own senses. Which is easy.
Worrying about who knows what about whom would apply for some out-of-combat stuff only. |
05-16-2019, 01:34 PM | #30 |
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Berkeley, CA
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Re: What are the senses of a wolf image or illusion?
If observer A thinks the illusion can see something, and observer B thinks the illusion cannot, which wins?
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