Steve Jackson Games - Site Navigation
Home General Info Follow Us Search Illuminator Store Forums What's New Other Games Ogre GURPS Munchkin Our Games: Home

Go Back   Steve Jackson Games Forums > Roleplaying > GURPS

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 01-18-2018, 12:14 AM   #11
Drakyrias
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Default Re: Highlander (ish) style quickening mechanic

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bira View Post
The movies never established a specific mechanic for it beyond "it makes you stronger", and you're not trying to be 100% faithful to them anyway, so you're pretty free to do whatever you wish here.

The simplest solution here does indeed seem to be just giving the winner of such a fight a bunch of character points they while at the same time directly altering their character sheet with any "surprise traits" you want them to have.
I'm looking for suggestions on how to generate a mechanic for that rather then just deciding ad-hoc every time the PC takes the head of an eligible immortal being.

If the PC takes the head of an immortal who's 300 years older then him, and taken a dozen more heads, and out paces his character pt value by 200pts, what would/should be the mechanic to determine the results is the question I'm trying to determine.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Bira View Post
It seems like you're assuming a more antagonistic relationship between players and GMs than me.

Since the original poster wanted a setup in which absorbing the powers of another immortal also changed your appearance, I naturally assumed that this is what the "surprise" changes would limit themselves to. You know, raised or lowered Appearance, Distinctive or Unnatural features, or even a change that's worth no points and just means you look different than you did before. It didn't seem like it was something the character would have control over.

Assuming that this necessarily means the GM is going to outright take your character from you is reaching a bit.
Thank you.
Drakyrias is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-18-2018, 12:29 AM   #12
Refplace
 
Refplace's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Yukon, OK
Default Re: Highlander (ish) style quickening mechanic

Quote:
Originally Posted by Drakyrias View Post
I'm looking for suggestions on how to generate a mechanic for that rather then just deciding ad-hoc every time the PC takes the head of an eligible immortal being.

If the PC takes the head of an immortal who's 300 years older then him, and taken a dozen more heads, and out paces his character pt value by 200pts, what would/should be the mechanic to determine the results is the question I'm trying to determine.
I think the Corruption mechanic introduced in GURPS Horror based off the points you get could work here. At least its a starting point.
__________________
My GURPS publications GURPS Powers: Totem and Nature Spirits; GURPS Template Toolkit 4: Spirits; Pyramid articles. Buying them lets us know you want more!
My GURPS fan contribution and blog:
REFPLace GURPS Landing Page
My List of GURPS You Tube videos (plus a few other useful items)
My GURPS Wiki entries
Refplace is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-18-2018, 08:11 AM   #13
Anaraxes
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Default Re: Highlander (ish) style quickening mechanic

Summarizing past conventional wisdom:
  • There's no fair price for an ability that lets you generate more CP. This point comes up a lot for supers that can copy others' abilities (like Rogue), and also in the context of Highlander :) If _all_ the PCs have this ability, then it's a setting feature, everyone gets it for "free", and you don't have to worry about the cost. If only some PCs have it and others don't, then you're guaranteed to have an imbalance of character power shortly. Whether that's bad or not depends on your group. (Classic failure example: the 3e Eidetic Memory, which was a multiplier for CP spent on mental skills.)
  • The "it costs what it costs" philosophy would argue that you can absorb any abilities you like when you kill an immortal. You just have to have the CP to pay for them. The ideal here is that no matter how you "built" the character, in play or not, you'd wind up with the same CP expenditure for the same list of abilities. (Classic failure example: the 3e racial stat bonuses combined with the increased cost with increasing abilities, which meant that the 10 CP a dwarf spent for +1 ST was really worth 15 or 20 CP, so typical dwarf fighters were just always 5 points cheaper than human ones with ostensibly the same abilities.) Since the GM is in charge of handing out earned XP, he might of course just award fifty or a hundred or five hundred points for killing an immortal, so you could buy all sorts of goodies. (At least that makes the power growth more obvious.)
  • The event is a good excuse to break the usual rules to pay for your new kewl powerz by taking on new Disads, even those that you might not normally be able to acquire in play or ones in excess of the starting limits. In this case, a limit might be that the victim had to have that Disad. Or you might go with anything that's reasonably narratively justified without too much WSoD breaking. (Maybe you acquire a new quirk or phobia or PTSD from the stress of the fight and Quickening, or the power rush makes you Overconfident or Intolerant even though the victim wasn't, etc.). This is really another source of CP for "it costs what it costs".

The Corruption mechanic was intended for acquiring permanent disads for using a temporary resource (casting spells in a Cthulhu-esque world). You could use it for a permanent acquisition as well. The ratio will be a matter of taste and how you want the game to feel. Perhaps you get 1 CP for every 5 points the victim immortal had, or 1:10. (This is a guideline for the GM when he's handing out points as in #2 above.) The GM can also impose limits on the spending of those points, like "only for abilities the victim had". (Many games have restrictions on how you can spend xp, for instance, "have to undertake training in setting before you can buy that skill" or "have to quest for the guru before buying Trained By A Master", so this kind of limit isn't unusual).

If the players know in advance that killing an immortal often means you acquire some of the victim's characteristics, and the GM is fair, then that seems like a risk that's in the player's control. Don't want any chance of being stuck with that Disad? Don't kill that immortal. This might be fine depending on the intended feel for the game. (If there's no downside, the game becomes "gleefully slaughter as many immortals as fast as you can", the hack-and-slash version, which is also a perfectly valid feel if that's the game you want.) Usually, I'd expect any new Disads to be a matter for negotiation between the player and the GM. But in this case, it seems like a risk that can be known in advance, and dealing with acquired changes from bad guys is pretty central to the intent of the game.

So, you might also steal another thought from Horror, and include a mechanism for "healing" those acquired Disads, some sort of expenditure of time or resources that generates points buy off the imposed Disads. ("Time" is of course not much of a cost for an immortal. "Time lost from adventuring" is a cost the player will avoid, but it's pretty unfun to tell people they can't play next week because their character has to go meditate in the monastery. You might be able to cover that sort of gap with troupe-style play or some NPCs that the player can borrow.) You might also be able to apply this mechanism proactively, to build up an anti-bad-stuff buffer of points to buy an indulgence for your next sin.
Anaraxes is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-18-2018, 09:10 AM   #14
Fred Brackin
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Default Re: Highlander (ish) style quickening mechanic

Quote:
Originally Posted by Drakyrias View Post
I'm looking for suggestions on how to generate a mechanic for that rather then just deciding ad-hoc every time the PC takes the head of an eligible immortal being.

If the PC takes the head of an immortal who's 300 years older then him, and taken a dozen more heads, and out paces his character pt value by 200pts, what would/should be the mechanic to determine the results is the question I'm trying to determine.

.
GURPS has no standard mechanic to determine this. You do not normally gain cp/experience based on numerically determined characteristics of the opponent. I always awarded cp for a session of play depending on how hard it was and how much was accomplished.

Anyway, the most important question is "What do you as GM _want_ to have happen?". Also possibly "What do you think this would add to your game?".

It hasn't been very clear what categories of effects your looking for.
__________________
Fred Brackin
Fred Brackin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-18-2018, 11:03 AM   #15
Andreas
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Default Re: Highlander (ish) style quickening mechanic

Quote:
Originally Posted by Drakyrias View Post
I'm looking for suggestions on how to generate a mechanic for that rather then just deciding ad-hoc every time the PC takes the head of an eligible immortal being.

If the PC takes the head of an immortal who's 300 years older then him, and taken a dozen more heads, and out paces his character pt value by 200pts, what would/should be the mechanic to determine the results is the question I'm trying to determine.
I would suggest getting something like (Y x Y)/(X x 20), where X is the killer's point total and Y is the point total of the one killed (with a minumum value of 0). That way, you get significantly more for killing people stronger than you, increasingly less when they are weaker. Also, it would likely be a good idea not to include social traits for the puprose of this point total.

Killing someone of the same point total as you increases your points by 5%.

A 500 point character killing someone with 1000 points would give 100 points, a huge reward for a very difficult feat.

A 1000 point character killing someone with 500 points only gets 12 points, it might be better to wait a while until the target has grown a bit stronger.

Last edited by Andreas; 01-18-2018 at 11:10 AM.
Andreas is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-18-2018, 09:42 PM   #16
Drakyrias
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Default Re: Highlander (ish) style quickening mechanic

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anaraxes View Post
The Corruption mechanic was intended for acquiring permanent disads for using a temporary resource (casting spells in a Cthulhu-esque world). You could use it for a permanent acquisition as well. The ratio will be a matter of taste and how you want the game to feel. Perhaps you get 1 CP for every 5 points the victim immortal had, or 1:10. (This is a guideline for the GM when he's handing out points as in #2 above.) The GM can also impose limits on the spending of those points, like "only for abilities the victim had". (Many games have restrictions on how you can spend xp, for instance, "have to undertake training in setting before you can buy that skill" or "have to quest for the guru before buying Trained By A Master", so this kind of limit isn't unusual).

If the players know in advance that killing an immortal often means you acquire some of the victim's characteristics, and the GM is fair, then that seems like a risk that's in the player's control. Don't want any chance of being stuck with that Disad? Don't kill that immortal. This might be fine depending on the intended feel for the game. (If there's no downside, the game becomes "gleefully slaughter as many immortals as fast as you can", the hack-and-slash version, which is also a perfectly valid feel if that's the game you want.) Usually, I'd expect any new Disads to be a matter for negotiation between the player and the GM. But in this case, it seems like a risk that can be known in advance, and dealing with acquired changes from bad guys is pretty central to the intent of the game.

So, you might also steal another thought from Horror, and include a mechanism for "healing" those acquired Disads, some sort of expenditure of time or resources that generates points buy off the imposed Disads. ("Time" is of course not much of a cost for an immortal. "Time lost from adventuring" is a cost the player will avoid, but it's pretty unfun to tell people they can't play next week because their character has to go meditate in the monastery. You might be able to cover that sort of gap with troupe-style play or some NPCs that the player can borrow.) You might also be able to apply this mechanism proactively, to build up an anti-bad-stuff buffer of points to buy an indulgence for your next sin.
I presume this is 4th ed Horror?

I actually run 3rd ed and both editions are available on W23 so want to make sure I get the right copy to actually look at the system I'm being told to reference.
Drakyrias is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-18-2018, 10:04 PM   #17
Refplace
 
Refplace's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Yukon, OK
Default Re: Highlander (ish) style quickening mechanic

Quote:
Originally Posted by Drakyrias View Post
I presume this is 4th ed Horror?

I actually run 3rd ed and both editions are available on W23 so want to make sure I get the right copy to actually look at the system I'm being told to reference.
Yes its Fourth Edition Horror.
God resource even if you run Third.
__________________
My GURPS publications GURPS Powers: Totem and Nature Spirits; GURPS Template Toolkit 4: Spirits; Pyramid articles. Buying them lets us know you want more!
My GURPS fan contribution and blog:
REFPLace GURPS Landing Page
My List of GURPS You Tube videos (plus a few other useful items)
My GURPS Wiki entries
Refplace is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-19-2018, 10:53 AM   #18
Drakyrias
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Default Re: Highlander (ish) style quickening mechanic

Ok, looking at that the corruption system did give me some good ideas.

This is my first pass idea at the 'Quickening' mechanic:

First roll: Will roll to absorb memories of the fallen immortal, for every 25 CP the fallen immortal was above the victor, the character gains a Quickening Character point that may immediately be spent to raise traits shared with the fallen or purchase any new skills or advantages (stored CP and Quickening may be used as well).

Second roll: HT roll, -1 for every 10CP above the victor or current quickening points the fallen immortal has. Rate of failure give you Dark Quickening or 'Corruption' points which feed into disadvantages the fallen has or generate new appropriate ones. Dark quickening can be reduced by surrendering to the appearance of past conquests (1-5 pts, happens over a month per pt.), a character can spend 1 quickening cp per dark quickening to cancel the effects of dark quickening.

Quickening points unlike normal CP dissipate at a rate of 1 per day if unused at the time of a duel.

Dark Quickening that doesn't immediately end up in a disadvantage does not dissipate.
Drakyrias is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-19-2018, 02:12 PM   #19
Dragondog
Never Been Pretty
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Default Re: Highlander (ish) style quickening mechanic

Quote:
Originally Posted by Refplace View Post
Yes its Fourth Edition Horror.
God resource even if you run Third.
He's always wanted to play GURPS. It's awesome that He can do so now. ;)
__________________
Daydreams of a Dragon: My blog
Dragondog is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2018, 07:14 PM   #20
Drakyrias
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Default Re: Highlander (ish) style quickening mechanic

Any comments on my system?
Drakyrias is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Fnords are Off
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 03:24 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.