alternate form as a disadvantage

[Johnny Angel]

Pretty simple question...

How would you model an alternate form which is a disadvantage?


For an example which is close to what I'm trying to do with a character, I'm thinking of what happened to some of Anne Rice's vampires after not drinking blood for a while. Instead of dying, they started to turn into something like a statue.

[jeff_wilson]

Originally Posted by Johnny Angel

Pretty simple question...

How would you model an alternate form which is a disadvantage?


For an example which is close to what I'm trying to do with a character, I'm thinking of what happened to some of Anne Rice's vampires after not drinking blood for a while. Instead of dying, they started to turn into something like a statue.

That particular transformation is probably better modeled as a form of life support, conditional DR, and/or Metabolism Control seasoned with Unconscious. Regardless, it would be hard to describe something that prevents the consequence of death as a disadvantage.

However, if such a transformation occurred in response to some unknown, uncontrollable factor it might be worth something similar to Epilepsy or the most extreme Flashbacks.

[Kuroshima]

Originally Posted by jeff_wilson

That particular transformation is probably better modeled as a form of life support, conditional DR, and/or Metabolism Control seasoned with Unconscious. Regardless, it would be hard to describe something that prevents the consequence of death as a disadvantage.

However, if such a transformation occurred in response to some unknown, uncontrollable factor it might be worth something similar to Epilepsy or the most extreme Flashbacks.

Personally, I would make it Does Not Eat or Drink with backlash: Paralysis, and maybe conditional DR (I have not read the books, but it would depend if they are tougher in this form than out of it)

[starslayer]

Conversely if you REALLY want to do this with an alternative form <and I can see some reasons why, like a gargoyle who turns to stone during the day, but gets a tougher body and regeneration while doing so>

Built the alternate form as the default state of the creature; in the above gargoyle example this might be:

Sessile
ATR -5
ST - 0
HP+40
DR 15
Regeneration: Fast (1/min)
Regrowth
Alternative form: Always on, accessibility: only during the night


Then buy your other stats/abilities normally. When daylight hits you switch to an alternative form that cancels that entire package with the exception of the alternative form and switches you to whatever your normal ST/HP/other abilities are and you effectively get a 10% discount on the 'awake' form as a result (since you only pay 90% of the difference in cost)- since ATR-5 is a 500 point disadvantage that means that the alternate form is worth ~50 points.

Side note: To ANY GM who sees a player do this, make sure that there alternative form is setup in a way so as not to be active enough for it to essentially be free points (like an always accessible alternate form with no reason to change forms). A blanket rule like 'the form you spend most of your time in is your default form' would work fine; in which case the gargoyle above would be acceptable (spends ~50% of it's time in either form), but the vampire who only turns into a statue when starving would not.

[Johnny Angel]

Originally Posted by starslayer

Conversely if you REALLY want to do this with an alternative form <and I can see some reasons why, like a gargoyle who turns to stone during the day, but gets a tougher body and regeneration while doing so>

Built the alternate form as the default state of the creature; in the above gargoyle example this might be:

Sessile
ATR -5
ST - 0
HP+40
DR 15
Regeneration: Fast (1/min)
Regrowth
Alternative form: Always on, accessibility: only during the night


Then buy your other stats/abilities normally. When daylight hits you switch to an alternative form that cancels that entire package with the exception of the alternative form and switches you to whatever your normal ST/HP/other abilities are and you effectively get a 10% discount on the 'awake' form as a result (since you only pay 90% of the difference in cost)- since ATR-5 is a 500 point disadvantage that means that the alternate form is worth ~50 points.

Side note: To ANY GM who sees a player do this, make sure that there alternative form is setup in a way so as not to be active enough for it to essentially be free points (like an always accessible alternate form with no reason to change forms). A blanket rule like 'the form you spend most of your time in is your default form' would work fine; in which case the gargoyle above would be acceptable (spends ~50% of it's time in either form), but the vampire who only turns into a statue when starving would not.

Interesting, and a good idea. I hadn't thought of doing it that way.

Originally Posted by jeff_wilson

That particular transformation is probably better modeled as a form of life support, conditional DR, and/or Metabolism Control seasoned with Unconscious. Regardless, it would be hard to describe something that prevents the consequence of death as a disadvantage.

However, if such a transformation occurred in response to some unknown, uncontrollable factor it might be worth something similar to Epilepsy or the most extreme Flashbacks.

I was thinking it is a disadvantage because they don't necessarily have control over it. It's pretty much the same idea as the normal disadvantage a GURPS vampire would have involving eventual death, but less severe. Instead of death, they started to slow down and harden (maybe a penalty to DX in GURPS terms.) My first thought was that it would be draining as per normal, but the character would lose DX instead of HP.

It's possible that what I have in mind may not be viewed as a disadvantage by GURPS. I'm not sure. The statue form is less severe than death as a consequence for not eating, but it still seems as though it would have drawbacks. Losing your ability to move being a rather serious drawback.



The second part of your post brings up an interesting point. While different from what I was originally asking, it deals with the same idea, so it would be interesting to have an answer to how something like that would work. For an easy generic example, let's say a certain type of attack causes you to morph into an alternate form which is undesirable. For sake of example, let's say a character has a trait which causes his body to start turning into brittle glass whenever he takes damage from fire or heat.

[MagiMaster]

The first solution I thought of was to put all the advantages and disadvantages in a package and apply a mitigator. That it doesn't happen instantly sounds like SFX.

[Stone Dog]

You could always build the main form as the crappy one and just tool around in the "alternate" form all the time. ;)

[bea_bumble]

This is definitely not a disad. Losing your ability to move is a serious drawback... But you lose that ability when you die, too. Vampires will have the restricted diet disad, but going without your specified necessary food triggers normal starvation rules. Your vampires just use different rules for starvation. This is a feature or a perk or possibly even a 5-point advantage, depending on how often it comes up. If it is likely to just serve as campaign flavor, it's a feature. It sounds to me like something that might well save a character from death, though, which would make it worth some points. I mean, assuming that your vampires probably already have Unaging and Unkillable 1, this effectively removes yet another weakness from them (you cannot kill them by starving them).

Imagine that a vampire character has been trapped somewhere without access to food and will be unable to escape for a long time. A normal human would starve to death in this situation. The vampire will turn into a statue and might live again. Not a disad.

(Put another way, imagine that both humans and vampires treat these as powers. The human has the amazing ability "Can kill self or cause severe, long-term damage to physical and mental capacities by not eating food for a long period of time!" The vampire also has an ability: "Can turn into a nearly indestructible statue by not eating food for a long period of time. It can live forever in this statue form until it somehow gets food.")

[Not another shrubbery]

Try the suggested rules for Disadvantageous Alternate Forms, from the Powers Designer's Notes.

Seems like a long time since I have referenced those :/

[jeff_wilson]

Originally Posted by MagiMaster

The first solution I thought of was to put all the advantages and disadvantages in a package and apply a mitigator. That it doesn't happen instantly sounds like SFX.

That was the old 3e way and was very abusable - it made it cheaper to be a world leader and a kickass werewolf than to be either one separately.