Steve Jackson Games Forums Feudal Rank/Status and Cost of Living
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 03-22-2020, 08:14 PM #1 thom   Join Date: Oct 2011 Feudal Rank/Status and Cost of Living For my upcoming fantasy game I've decided to go the route of including status and all it's niceties into Feudal Rank at 10 points/level. I also plan to use the "Cost of Living" rules which means that yes - the vast majority of the world (including the starting PCs) are technically considered as Feudal Rank 0 (Status 0) "yeomen/peasants" whose monthly Cost of Living (Col) will be \$600. I'm OK with that. What I'm working on is the Cost of Living for the various Feudal ranks, and I want to make sure I understand the "included Status at no extra cost" effect of higher ranks. Per B29 ranks 2 - 4 give +1 status, and ranks 5 -7 give +2 to to status. I'm thinking this means the following: Feudal Rank 0 = \$600/month Col Feudal Rank 1 = \$1,200/month Col Feudal Rank 2 = \$1,200/month Col (and not \$3,000/month because of the +1 status effect) Feudal Rank 3 = \$3,000/month (instead of \$12,000/month for the same reason) Feudal Rank 4 = \$12,000/month (instead of \$60,000/month ditto) Feudal Rank 5 = \$12,000/month?? Here's where it gets tricky; since rank 5 gives +2 status, do I use the 5 - 2 = status 3 and so only charge \$12,000/month instead of \$600,000 for status 5? I know both Bill Stoddard and Kromm have stated that the organization (in this case the feudal state) pays for the difference in lifestyle benefits when rank provides the extra status benefits. I just want to double-check that my numbers are correct. Thanks for any input! thom
 03-22-2020, 08:45 PM #2 Fred Brackin   Join Date: Aug 2007 Re: Feudal Rank/Status and Cost of Living Actually it's Rank that gives you the discount on CoL and not Status It' s status that you have to pay the CoL to keep up.. __________________ Fred Brackin
 03-23-2020, 08:09 AM #3 Donny Brook     Join Date: Aug 2014 Location: Snoopy's basement Re: Feudal Rank/Status and Cost of Living Feudal Rank is a broken concept. Heirarchy in a feudal society as a whole IS Social Status. But of course it's possible to have organizations within the society with an internal Rank structure. However, if you insist on using Feudal Rank, it "replaces" social status, so the SS boost from higher ranks doesn't exist since there is no parallel structure for higher ranks to boost Status in.
03-23-2020, 09:35 AM   #4
ravenfish

Join Date: May 2007
Re: Feudal Rank/Status and Cost of Living

Quote:
 Originally Posted by Donny Brook Feudal Rank is a broken concept. Heirarchy in a feudal society as a whole IS Social Status. But of course it's possible to have organizations within the society with an internal Rank structure. However, if you insist on using Feudal Rank, it "replaces" social status, so the SS boost from higher ranks doesn't exist since there is no parallel structure for higher ranks to boost Status in.
I think there is a parallel structure. A bishop or lord mayor can probably be considered to have moderate social status without having any feudal rank. Moreover, a miscellaneous unlanded son of nobility can have the social perquisites of status without having any retinue to command via feudal rank.
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Last edited by ravenfish; 03-23-2020 at 09:38 AM.

03-23-2020, 10:03 AM   #5
Prince Charon

Join Date: Dec 2012
Re: Feudal Rank/Status and Cost of Living

Quote:
 Originally Posted by ravenfish I think there is a parallel structure. A bishop or lord mayor can probably be considered to have moderate social status without having any feudal rank. Moreover, a miscellaneous unlanded son of nobility can have the social perquisites of status without having any retinue to command via feudal rank.
In the case of bishops, it depends on their bishopric, I think: A bishop is a Prince of the Church, and in that era, might have a body of troops at his command.
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 03-23-2020, 11:05 AM #6 Ninja Monkey     Join Date: May 2011 Location: London, E4 Re: Feudal Rank/Status and Cost of Living Not specific to the original question, but I'd suggest keeping Feudal Rank and Status separate. I use Courtesy Rank (Feudal) for anyone not an officer of the crown or a landed noble (e.g. knights bachelor and their squires).
03-23-2020, 11:21 AM   #7
ravenfish

Join Date: May 2007
Re: Feudal Rank/Status and Cost of Living

Quote:
 Originally Posted by Prince Charon In the case of bishops, it depends on their bishopric, I think: A bishop is a Prince of the Church, and in that era, might have a body of troops at his command.
Yes, I agree that some bishops were sufficiently emeshed in the secular power structure to deserve feudal rank. I would probably limit this to the ones who had landholders owing loyalty to them in the feudal manner, though- simply having a few soldiers to deploy for keeping order would probably be a perquisite of other forms of rank, just as a modern CEO can order around some security guards without having Police Rank.
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03-23-2020, 11:52 AM   #8
Donny Brook

Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Snoopy's basement
Re: Feudal Rank/Status and Cost of Living

Quote:
 Originally Posted by ravenfish I think there is a parallel structure. A bishop or lord mayor can probably be considered to have moderate social status without having any feudal rank. Moreover, a miscellaneous unlanded son of nobility can have the social perquisites of status without having any retinue to command via feudal rank.
Chartered towns and the church are examples of what I meant by heirarchies within the society. But they are not parallel to the overall social structure of feudalism.

 03-23-2020, 11:59 AM #9 thom   Join Date: Oct 2011 Re: Feudal Rank/Status and Cost of Living ::sigh:: Yes, I know "feudal rank is broken", and no I don't want to separate FR and Status. ::eyes roll:: All I want to know is if my calculation of the reduced cost the player has to pay for his Col is correct based on the rules. Sorry if I didn't make that clear enough. And as the rules state (on B29), "Alternatively, one form of Rank might replace Status...Each level of Rank gives all its usual benefits plus the effect of an equivalent level of Status." I'm interpreting this to mean that the "equivalent level of Status" does involve a Cost of Living expense. Which is why I'm trying to figure out how much my players will have to pay by themselves at the higher FR levels. thom
03-23-2020, 12:15 PM   #10
Stormcrow

Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Ronkonkoma, NY
Re: Feudal Rank/Status and Cost of Living

Quote:
 Originally Posted by thom I'm interpreting this to mean that the "equivalent level of Status" does involve a Cost of Living expense. Which is why I'm trying to figure out how much my players will have to pay by themselves at the higher FR levels.
Rank only grants a bonus to Status when Rank coexists with Status. When Rank replaces Status, which is what you're doing, there is no bonus. If you assume that this includes the Cost of Living table, then the cost of living is just the normal table, replacing Status with Rank.

(Feudal Rank is not at all realistic. Feudalism doesn't operate as an organization with a hierarchical structure. There is a hierarchy, but it's ad-hoc, transient, and not a simple tree.)

 Tags cost of living, feudal rank

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