Draw Power at TL3

[whswhs]

Originally Posted by lexington

Could you draw power from a large fire, maybe?

Not in 4e. You have to have the fire acting as a power source in some way, and no one built large enough fires. Even furnaces for smelting metal didn't have that much output, and early steam engines were down in the kW range.

Seriously, you want the spells Minor Conduct Power and Minor Draw Power on pp. 26-27 of GURPS Thaumatology: Urban Magics, under the head The Mechanical Equivalent of Magic. With Minor Draw Power, each 6 kW gives you 1 energy/minute. But even there, I worked it out: The crew of a trireme could provide 2-4 energy/minute by all pulling the levers of some sort of huge machine, but they could provide a lot more if you had them take part in ceremonial magic.

Bill Stoddard

[Fred Brackin]

Originally Posted by ErhnamDJ

Let's say we're using the regular old waterwheels. Couldn't you harness the power of hundreds (or thousands) of them all at once? Rig them all together with clockworks and have them turn the world's biggest Archimedes screw..

That requires a MW-capable camshaft. This simply isn't a TL3 job. I don'[t know if the ancients didn't try to do it because they had no use for it but I am sure they didn't do it because it was impossible for their levels of materials sciences.

So if TL3 won't do go straight to TL3+3. Making hotter forge fires to produce fluid steel is trivial and Shape Metal will produce the large steel turbines you need out of the improved metal.

It is TL3+3 though and not just TL3. Materials science is one of the primary determinants of a TL's capability. You need some TL that adds up to at least 6.

[Ze'Manel Cunha]

Originally Posted by ErhnamDJ

I'm sure there's lots of ways to go about this. He could create a high pressure flow of water that slowly turns a really big gear wheel.

Thing is, at TL 3 the mage shouldn't be trying to invent a better power generator, he should be inventing a more useful spell.

I've allowed the spell "Conduct Natural Power" and "Draw Natural Power" in some of my settings in the past, it works fine for drawing power from things like waterfalls and geothermal vents.

[ErhnamDJ]

One last idea and I'll give this up.

Let's say we have a giant cylinder made out of bronze or iron or whatever. This cylinder sits on the ground such that it can roll. On its sides, it has grooves. When the big lead balls drop into the grooves, they turn the cylinder.

Now, our wizard can set up some way to turn this thing (like how a train turns on its tracks), or, even easier, he can have it constantly circle the globe. He might need to move some terrain around, but it should be easy enough. All he has to do it build enough magical gateways, get the materials, and get this all built.

Does that work as a proof of concept? If so, I think we can scale it down.

[ErhnamDJ]

Originally Posted by Ze'Manel Cunha

Thing is, at TL 3 the mage shouldn't be trying to invent a better power generator, he should be inventing a more useful spell.

Maybe he's not the one doing it. Maybe the wizard is some lowly apprentice who sparks the idea in the mind of a some genius inventor or engineer? Maybe the wizard is a polymath whose primary interest is inventing, and he only learned magic to augment his inventions? That measurement spell looks awfully tempting. Maybe he read about the draw power spell and took it as a challenge?

[Ze'Manel Cunha]

Originally Posted by ErhnamDJ

Maybe he read about the draw power spell and took it as a challenge?

It's TL 3, who's inventing a Draw Power Spell at TL 3 which requires TL 6 technology?

Just because any given spell is in Magic doesn't mean that spell has been invented in any given setting, the Energy Spells college in particular wouldn't be invented at lower TLs.

[Fred Brackin]

Originally Posted by ErhnamDJ

One last idea and I'll give this up.
Does that work as a proof of concept? If so, I think we can scale it down.

No. by the terms of the 4e spell the energy has to be accessible to a machine of that TL. You've got no way to get energy out of your giant cylinder.

When you try and introduce a draw off mechanism whether it be a camshaft or a rope or whatever you run into the limits of materials science for that TL.

Incidnetally, really, really _please_ get rid of the lead balls and the Gates and the other crap. That's still trying to concentrate force which is entrely irrelevant to the process. You've got to be able to _tranmit_ useful energy to a machine and not just find some hole to pour it into.

[ErhnamDJ]

Originally Posted by Ze'Manel Cunha

It's TL 3, who's inventing a Draw Power Spell at TL 3 which requires TL 6 technology?

Wizards live a long time. I would assume that some of them go mad.

Also: it's a remnant from a past civilization.

Or: when the gods dropped off the spells, that one was in there.

I don't know. We can come up with something. This was the example. I don't know how the TL3 wizard came to possess that spell. But that's what we were given to work with.

[Ze'Manel Cunha]

Originally Posted by ErhnamDJ

This was the example. I don't know how the TL3 wizard came to possess that spell. But that's what we were given to work with.

This is GURPS, when the given doesn't match the setting, we change the given. *grin*

In this case we need a different spell.

[kirbwarrior]

It's not reliable, but would a lightning storm be accessible with this spell?