Horses, encumbrance and travelling speed

[Icelander]

Originally Posted by Boobis

A compilation in it self would for me be awesome. Compiling takes time.

So, stop sleeping and get to work ;)

Compiling in the form of a new post or in the form of a Pyramid article?

[joelbf]

I'll be happy (and maybe even allow you some sleep) after a forum post ;)

[Gavynn]

Originally Posted by Icelander

Compiling in the form of a new post or in the form of a Pyramid article?

If you are going to the trouble of compiling you might as well compile and edit as needed to get paid for the work. It would be nice to see it all professionally laid out.

[nik1979]

I've just been reading up on horses again. Warhorse: Cavalry in the Ancient Warfare by Philip Sindell is a great read (I've been reading what was shown online).

Speaking again of horses, looking at Fief (by Lisa J. Steele) I think it should be noted horses sold for breeding and for actual use. I realized recently, I overlooked the use of castration not only to change a horses temperment but to preserve monopolies on bloodlines.

Rereading Horsesense (from Pyramid) I think the pricing should be re-assessed when you consider the facts and economics presented in Fief. The figures seems to deal with Dukes, Kings, and Emperors.


The Common Horse.
I feel that in general horses are poorly taken care of. Good horses as Good Quality equipment are actually uncommon in Lower TLs, the common horse found would be with many problems.

Poor HT. An HT -1 (which may equates to a Move -1) will certainly make the common horse half as expensive as that of Good Quality. Poor HT would also be the most common affliction for Cheap horses because of the suprising amount of care and knowledge for their welfare.

Temperament. The premium placed on Mules and other more kindly beasts should be a point of reference in cost. Temperament would translate to Animal handling and Riding Penalties or Bonuses. More pliable horses could have as much as a +2 Handling bonus (I'm just inferring from what I read on mules are described and favored).

If I were to rule Ad Hoc, I'd rule for every +1 +50% price, and for every -1 -20% price. So a very tempermental horse (-3 handling) would be a -60%.

So a common horse, lets say a Warhorse for a Sergeant would be a strong (ST+10%) war trained Rouncy. I'm sure given the budget of the Man-at-Arms, he would own a weathered colt (HT-1 = move 5) roughly $1,320 or about 27 sou.

As in Horsesense Characters who fail in their animal handling or merchant Per roll may be paying more than they bargained for contrary to the actual value of the horse.


This me just trying to figure things out, I'm working on Character outfits cards.

As Wealthy characters (annual income of 42,000) fall in the 40 livre income range required to fullfill man at arms duty for his king (11C-12C). Given in the rules of ransom, a small landholder falls at 30 livre for his annual Income (I think that we can ignore the as 1,000 livre/ $1,000,000 represent VIPs and MVPs of the realm).

Since the King Expects that a "Wealthy" character to afford 30 sou of arms and armor (roughly $1,500 budget) and 30 sou for warhorse, I don't think one can ignore the support needed to supply this man at arms. At minimum a vallet or manservant and 2 pack horses for supplies.

*1 livre roughly $960 GURPS or to keep it simple $1,000. 1 sou or gold piece is roughly $48 or to keep it simple $50.

[safisher]

Originally Posted by nik1979

Speaking again of horses, looking at Fief (by Lisa J. Steele) I think it should be noted horses sold for breeding and for actual use.

I made that point downthread already. The astronomical prices for horses today ($1M to $2M) are for stud horses for breeding up a horse operation. Should be no different for kings importing warhorses from afar. That's akin to R&D for a new army tank.

[Anders]

Do horses really fall over when they kick with their hind legs?

[Icelander]

Originally Posted by Asta Kask

Do horses really fall over when they kick with their hind legs?

Eh... no.

Not that I've seen.

But, of course, I've only seen horses lash out with their hind legs in annoyance, not full force.

[Hannes665]

What about Icelandic horses? I remember reading somewhere that a Icelandic Pony could carry upto 150 kg (about 320 lbs).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Icelandic_horse

[nik1979]

I'm in vacation here in the Philippines' mountain province and former American military base, Baguio (“Bag-yo”) City. One of the only places in my country you can pay for horse rides and hikes for up to 8 hours at $8 an hour. I was talking to the horsemen who provide these services and care for the horses and here are some interesting answers that arm chair discussion should consider.

These horses are 12.2 hands high (at their hithers). They are around 550lbs (250kgs) on average and eat, at a minimum, 6kg of feed on a work day and 4kg when there is no work. Larger specimens eat as much as 8kg.

These ponies are modestly cared for and can be ridden in the lightly forested mountain trail about 8 hours with reasonable breaks now and then (to feed and to rest). I don't think this is sustainable daily. According to the care takers, these ponies can sustain a gallop of up to 5 minutes (which would require additional feed and water above the working average for the day if required). Safely a minute of gallop would be enough if the total encumbrance would be (probably) at 200lbs.

This horse would wearing riding saddle, stirrups, bit and bridle of up to 35lbs (30 to 45lbs). They can carry along with the riding gear up to 300lbs (but cannot gallop at this level of encumbrance). In all the horse would fall under the ST20 range.

Their feed is a mix of grass grown specifically for animal feed (good quality for grass), molasses, and corn grown for animal feed (bad quality for corn).

Things I can't see for my self and confirm as easily are its speed and its galloping speed (if it is x2 or x1.5 at full move). Cost wise it is not polite to ask, especially its pries too close to the costs of their profession.

The strength and working endurance of this pony is much better than the Basic Set stats. So much better that they would probably be a more common key piece of equipment if only we had a good source of prices. Arm chair speculation with a lot of discussion and hearsay woud put the horse such a pony at around $1000-1,500* (if you're familiar to the buying process). I would put their quality at around poor/cheap with a certainty that it doesnt fall under good condition. I would put HT at 10 and the speed would probably be around 6 (from 7). I think a privately own horse would be in a much better condition. These horse would fall under the 35 years old age.

*this is relatively expensive given that this is a mountain province and horses are a novelty. In a location where they are more common and widely used expect the price to fall.

[Mr Frost]

Originally Posted by Hannes665

What about Icelandic horses? I remember reading somewhere that a Icelandic Pony could carry upto 150 kg (about 320 lbs).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Icelandic_horse

That's because they fed them herring and their breath was so strong it could carry 100lbs all by its' self !