Steve Jackson Games - Site Navigation
Home General Info Follow Us Search Illuminator Store Forums What's New Other Games Ogre GURPS Munchkin Our Games: Home

Go Back   Steve Jackson Games Forums > Roleplaying > The Fantasy Trip

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 08-14-2020, 10:17 AM   #31
hcobb
 
hcobb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Pacheco, California
Default Re: Can NPCs break the rules? (moved from KS discussion)

My 137,300 XP monster NPC wizard was my oversight because while I correctly dumped ST I didn't double check on the returned document to prevent stat creep.

The version I initially sent was under 40k XP.
__________________
-HJC
hcobb is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 08-14-2020, 10:17 AM   #32
larsdangly
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Default Re: Can NPCs break the rules? (moved from KS discussion)

The question of whether an illusion of fairness or actual fairness is best, and what fairness means, is very much a table-to-table issue. My personal preference is in absolute fairness and transparency when it comes to die rolls, application of settled 'case law', etc., and complete and radical, 'the universe doesn't care if you live or die' unfairness when it comes to the nature and powers of the beings and hazards the PC's might find in the world. I'm sufficiently anarchic in this respect that in recent memory I ran a mostly 1st level D+D party through Tomb of Horrors simply because they ran across it in the place I'd left it while they were hex crawling and they thought it looked like an interesting place to poke around in. Similarly, my main LE TFT sandbox setting is replete with 14 hex dragons, powerful liches and so forth, and I just assume it is the job of a 32 point character to sort out for his or herself where the line between 'fun' and 'dead' can be found.
larsdangly is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-14-2020, 11:03 AM   #33
Skarg
 
Join Date: May 2015
Default Re: Can NPCs break the rules? (moved from KS discussion)

Quote:
Originally Posted by larsdangly View Post
The question of whether an illusion of fairness or actual fairness is best, and what fairness means, is very much a table-to-table issue. My personal preference is in absolute fairness and transparency when it comes to die rolls, application of settled 'case law', etc., and complete and radical, 'the universe doesn't care if you live or die' unfairness when it comes to the nature and powers of the beings and hazards the PC's might find in the world. I'm sufficiently anarchic in this respect that in recent memory I ran a mostly 1st level D+D party through Tomb of Horrors simply because they ran across it in the place I'd left it while they were hex crawling and they thought it looked like an interesting place to poke around in. Similarly, my main LE TFT sandbox setting is replete with 14 hex dragons, powerful liches and so forth, and I just assume it is the job of a 32 point character to sort out for his or herself where the line between 'fun' and 'dead' can be found.
Ah! Something we very much agree on! Yay!

Except for the transparent die-rolls. I prefer the GM to hide most of their rolls, to reduce the amount of artificial out-of-character knowledge the players get about things.
Skarg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-14-2020, 12:14 PM   #34
larsdangly
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Default Re: Can NPCs break the rules? (moved from KS discussion)

I hide die rolls (and make them for players) when the outcome has to do with things you perceive or learn, or reactions (which might not be evident right away). Any die roll that has an immediate and irrevocable consequence that everyone will notice (a hit, damage, a DX save) I do openly, and have the players handle their own business.
larsdangly is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-17-2020, 10:37 AM   #35
zot
 
Join Date: May 2018
Default Re: Can NPCs break the rules? (moved from KS discussion)

Quote:
Originally Posted by larsdangly View Post
The question of whether an illusion of fairness or actual fairness is best, and what fairness means, is very much a table-to-table issue. My personal preference is in absolute fairness and transparency when it comes to die rolls, application of settled 'case law', etc., and complete and radical, 'the universe doesn't care if you live or die' unfairness when it comes to the nature and powers of the beings and hazards the PC's might find in the world. I'm sufficiently anarchic in this respect that in recent memory I ran a mostly 1st level D+D party through Tomb of Horrors simply because they ran across it in the place I'd left it while they were hex crawling and they thought it looked like an interesting place to poke around in. Similarly, my main LE TFT sandbox setting is replete with 14 hex dragons, powerful liches and so forth, and I just assume it is the job of a 32 point character to sort out for his or herself where the line between 'fun' and 'dead' can be found.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skarg View Post
Ah! Something we very much agree on! Yay!

Except for the transparent die-rolls. I prefer the GM to hide most of their rolls, to reduce the amount of artificial out-of-character knowledge the players get about things.
Definitely a valid approach and I agree that if the PCs insist on going into places they ought not to go, they should (and will) end up confronting unbeatable foes. But NPCs, rumors, etc. will generally discourage moves like that and the players have learned caution over time. 1st level groups entering the Tomb of Horrors / Annihilation doesn't generally happen in my stories.

GMs just make stuff up anyway, so the availability of rumors, helpful NPCs, research material, etc. is completely arbitrary -- different people have radically different ideas of what "makes sense". So even among tables where potential danger might be theoretically high the average PC lifespan in sessions will still very much depend on the GM's "whim".
zot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-17-2020, 11:03 AM   #36
Skarg
 
Join Date: May 2015
Default Re: Can NPCs break the rules? (moved from KS discussion)

Quote:
Originally Posted by zot View Post
Definitely a valid approach and I agree that if the PCs insist on going into places they ought not to go, they should (and will) end up confronting unbeatable foes. But NPCs, rumors, etc. will generally discourage moves like that and the players have learned caution over time. 1st level groups entering the Tomb of Horrors / Annihilation doesn't generally happen in my stories.

GMs just make stuff up anyway, so the availability of rumors, helpful NPCs, research material, etc. is completely arbitrary -- different people have radically different ideas of what "makes sense". So even among tables where potential danger might be theoretically high the average PC lifespan in sessions will still very much depend on the GM's "whim".
Different GMs can vary enormously in how self-consistent they are, and how well and in what ways they communicate what the game situation is like to their players.

Players also can vary widely between proactive and curious players who take the game seriously and investigate and act with care and caution, versus players who make little or no such attempts, and just show up and wait for "the adventure" to appear for them.

I really enjoy creating, running, and playing in well-thought-out consistent game worlds that allow freedom of investigation and action, and players who engage them.

Whether I'm interested in playing a game or not tends to hinge on whether there seems to actually be a consistent and discoverable interactive game situation where the players are free to choose to act in various ways, and the results will be based on that, and played out dynamically and fairly (including some chances for the PCs to fail and die etc, their fate therefore being in their hands, luck permitting).
Skarg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-17-2020, 02:11 PM   #37
zot
 
Join Date: May 2018
Default Re: Can NPCs break the rules? (moved from KS discussion)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Skarg View Post
Different GMs can vary enormously in how self-consistent they are, and how well and in what ways they communicate what the game situation is like to their players.

Players also can vary widely between proactive and curious players who take the game seriously and investigate and act with care and caution, versus players who make little or no such attempts, and just show up and wait for "the adventure" to appear for them.

I really enjoy creating, running, and playing in well-thought-out consistent game worlds that allow freedom of investigation and action, and players who engage them.

Whether I'm interested in playing a game or not tends to hinge on whether there seems to actually be a consistent and discoverable interactive game situation where the players are free to choose to act in various ways, and the results will be based on that, and played out dynamically and fairly (including some chances for the PCs to fail and die etc, their fate therefore being in their hands, luck permitting).
Speaking of GM's whim, consistency, and preparation, I updated my "Gathering Knowledge" document for the published LE.

These rules have worked very well for mysteries, police procedurals, search-and-rescue operations, and Ocean's 11-style capers.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1...it?usp=sharing
zot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-31-2020, 08:18 PM   #38
Tenex
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Default Re: Can NPCs break the rules? (moved from KS discussion)

Quote:
Originally Posted by zot View Post
Speaking of GM's whim, consistency, and preparation, I updated my "Gathering Knowledge" document for the published LE.

These rules have worked very well for mysteries, police procedurals, search-and-rescue operations, and Ocean's 11-style capers.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1...it?usp=sharing
The mechanism of getting to ask a clarifying question is a good one. I'm ashamed to say I never thought of this in all my years of RPGs. I'm stealing it. Thanks.
Tenex is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Fnords are Off
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 03:11 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.