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Old 09-16-2020, 08:05 PM   #1
phiwum
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Default Simple question about crossbows and Missile Weapons skill

On ITL38, the entry for missile weapons says:
This talent gives the user a +1 DX on all missile weapons and spells that he knows. This DX counts toward speed of fire for bows, as well as accuracy.
Does the bonus for speed of fire apply only to bows and not also for crossbows?
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Old 09-16-2020, 08:42 PM   #2
Mike P.
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Default Re: Simple question about crossbows and Missile Weapons skill

Quote:
Originally Posted by phiwum View Post
On ITL38, the entry for missile weapons says:
This talent gives the user a +1 DX on all missile weapons and spells that he knows. This DX counts toward speed of fire for bows, as well as accuracy.
Does the bonus for speed of fire apply only to bows and not also for crossbows?
We always took it to apply for speed of fire of crossbows as well.
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Old 09-16-2020, 08:50 PM   #3
phiwum
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Default Re: Simple question about crossbows and Missile Weapons skill

That's where I was leaning, too.
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Old 09-16-2020, 10:54 PM   #4
Axly Suregrip
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Default Re: Simple question about crossbows and Missile Weapons skill

I agree. All missile weapons.
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Old 09-17-2020, 08:35 AM   #5
larsdangly
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Default Re: Simple question about crossbows and Missile Weapons skill

TFT is a game with a lot of little 'logical operators' running in the background, but many of them are not described with perfect precision. You have to do a fair amount of interpolation, which means you have to develop your own sense of intent. These issues arise most often for two-weapon fighting, perhaps because there are so many different versions of the basic idea. This is another one.

I feel like the most consequential question about the missile weapon DX thresholds is whether the range penalty does or doesn't apply before you determine whether or not you qualify for the higher rate of fire that turn. You could argue either side of the case from a 'realism' perspective, so GM's should feel good about making whatever table ruling they want (as usual!). But the trickier question is what the intent is, based on general principles of the rules.

The closest evidence of the intent in Legacy Edition is that DX penalties of all sorts are considered when you decide order of actions (some people don't like this and house rule it differently, but RAW seems clear to me on this point). If qualifying for rate of fire advantages falls under the same umbrella then you should subtract range (or aiming, or darkness, or whatever) penalties before deciding whether or not you qualify for a faster shot. On the other hand, this leads to a peculiar, possibly broken rule situation where you only qualify for two draw bow shots if both of them are essentially automatic hits. I find that to be a 'bug' because it represents a particularly extreme sort of quadratic benefit whereas I prefer having two shots per turn be something a character earns from basic abilities and then expresses in a variety of contexts, sometimes at greater or lesser chances of success. But it is hard to come up with a solid ruling.
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Old 09-17-2020, 09:27 PM   #6
Helborn
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Default Re: Simple question about crossbows and Missile Weapons skill

ITL pg 115 Under "Missile Weapons"
The DX adjustments for missile and thrown weapon distance are not considered when determining which figure attacks first.

Since the range does not affect AdjDX for firing purposes - it would be strange if it affected AdjDX for purposes of a second shot with a bow or a faster reload with a crossbow.
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Old 09-17-2020, 10:31 PM   #7
larsdangly
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Default Re: Simple question about crossbows and Missile Weapons skill

That definitely tips the table toward my preferred interpretation. I had forgotten that exception to the general approach to DX mods and initiative in LE
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Old 09-18-2020, 07:22 AM   #8
hcobb
 
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Location: Pacheco, California
Default Re: Simple question about crossbows and Missile Weapons skill

Does an agile archer get a second shot at a difficult target such as blured, invisible, or partially hidden?

"Sorry you can't reload your crossbow quickly because the target is ten hexes away in the mist and partially hidden by a stone wall."
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Old 09-18-2020, 07:44 AM   #9
phiwum
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Default Re: Simple question about crossbows and Missile Weapons skill

Quote:
Originally Posted by hcobb View Post
Does an agile archer get a second shot at a difficult target such as blured, invisible, or partially hidden?

"Sorry you can't reload your crossbow quickly because the target is ten hexes away in the mist and partially hidden by a stone wall."
I think the interpretation is: "Sorry you can't reload and get a second shot off because it takes more time to aim at a difficult target."

But I'm not sure I buy it, since the difficulty is already baked into the negative DX modifier.
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Old 09-18-2020, 08:18 AM   #10
larsdangly
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Default Re: Simple question about crossbows and Missile Weapons skill

It seems like the rational thing is to follow the rules for the aiming penalty, which, as pointed out above, explicitly don't influence whether or not you meet the faster-shot thresholds
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