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Old 09-24-2018, 04:17 PM   #41
Chris Goodwin
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Hillsboro, Oregon, USA
Default Re: New Staff to-hit roll using IQ! (serious balance problem, no?)

What if it had a ST cost to roll against IQ to hit? Even 1 ST would do. That makes it comparable to most of the other damaging spells, and puts a limiting factor on it.
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Old 09-24-2018, 04:48 PM   #42
malchidael
 
Join Date: Jul 2018
Location: Near Milwaukee, WI
Default Re: New Staff to-hit roll using IQ! (serious balance problem, no?)

I think making staff attacks vs DX and spellcasting vs IQ could remedy both the issues - they are not hindered in their spellcasting due to low DX, and aren't combat monsters due to high IQ.
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Old 09-24-2018, 05:19 PM   #43
Shostak
 
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Location: New England
Default Re: New Staff to-hit roll using IQ! (serious balance problem, no?)

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Originally Posted by malchidael View Post
I think making staff attacks vs DX and spellcasting vs IQ could remedy both the issues - they are not hindered in their spellcasting due to low DX, and aren't combat monsters due to high IQ.
Neither casting spells nor attacking with weapons by rolling against DX was ever a problem in any of my games. In the new edition, it would be great to keep the elegance of the classic rules.

Last edited by Shostak; 09-24-2018 at 05:37 PM. Reason: Typo
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Old 09-24-2018, 06:01 PM   #44
larsdangly
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Default Re: New Staff to-hit roll using IQ! (serious balance problem, no?)

It's pretty important to TFT's overall balance that spell casting rolls be vs. DX, and that spell casting incurs meaningful ST costs. This is what prevents wizards from taking over the game.
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Old 09-24-2018, 06:08 PM   #45
larsdangly
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Default Re: New Staff to-hit roll using IQ! (serious balance problem, no?)

Having posted a few comments against elements of the staff rules, here's my list of things I'd say are good, or at least harmless, about them:

1) They are creative. The main responsibility of any game author is to be creative, and SJ had his creative hat on when he wrote these rules.

2) Overall damage done with a staff attack is appropriate

3) This is not a significantly unbalancing new element. In a game where I can put a lit petard under your cot, shoot you in the head with an arquebus, cast a 15 point Wizards Wrath or feed you a cereal bowl full of 10 die exploding gems, the new staff rules don't move the needle.

4) The ST battery powers are welcome, balanced and add an interesting new long term goal for wizards to work on

5) The added range at high IQ is not a big deal.

6) The armor penetration is nasty but does not exceed other powers in the game, and has precedence in inspirational fiction (e.g., this happens in a Conan story).

7) The auto hit at high IQ is not statistically important because the roll was being made vs. a very high value. In fact, you could argue it is a penalty because it removes the possibility of extra damage hits.

The only things that bug me are the roll vs. IQ and (especially) the free action attack. Both are outside the structure of other things in the game, and I don't think they add anything. 10 bucks says they get edited out at some time in the (possibly distant) future.
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Old 09-24-2018, 07:19 PM   #46
platimus
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
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Default Re: New Staff to-hit roll using IQ! (serious balance problem, no?)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Goodwin View Post
What if it had a ST cost to roll against IQ to hit? Even 1 ST would do. That makes it comparable to most of the other damaging spells, and puts a limiting factor on it.
I like it!
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Old 09-25-2018, 07:53 AM   #47
tbeard1999
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Tyler, Texas
Default Re: New Staff to-hit roll using IQ! (serious balance problem, no?)

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Originally Posted by Rick_Smith View Post
Hi Skarg, everyone.
I agree. Wizards have got a lot of boosts in this revision of TFT, making them combat monsters as well is unwise, I think.

Warm regards, Rick.
Agreed. This doesn't appear to have been playtested. It also introduces an exception to the universal rule that to hit rolls are made on DX. If we're gonna go down that route, why not let missile weapon users use the same rule? After all, perception is far more important for accuracy than agility. (Not advocating this at all; just illustrating the logical implications of such a rule).
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Old 09-25-2018, 08:09 AM   #48
Shadekeep
 
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Location: Aerlith
Default Re: New Staff to-hit roll using IQ! (serious balance problem, no?)

Yah, I think my vote has to be for "DX to hit" across the board. Anything else just bollocks up the system. As a software coder, I can tell you that hardcoding special rules for exceptional cases is a quick way to ruin the integrity of the system as a whole.
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Old 09-25-2018, 08:57 AM   #49
larsdangly
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Default Re: New Staff to-hit roll using IQ! (serious balance problem, no?)

Just to argue with myself, there is a sense in which I agree that the revisions create a significant combat imbalance. Staff attacks might not deliver a massive amount of damage per turn, but they do effectively, and automatically check-mate one of the few ways you can go after an experienced wizard. If a wizard can do 2d+4 damage to you every turn, automatically, at 2 hexes range and through armor, and characters are generally limited to 40 stat points (meaning your ST is probably not going to be above 15-18, regardless of who you are), then you have pretty long odds if you spend even as little as 1-2 turns at close range. So, in addition to having a nearly unbeatable recipe at missile range (e.g., reverse missiles+wizards wrath), and a nearly unbeatable recipe at thrown range (rest of spell book), wizards are extremely dangerous at close range without even expending ST. I'm not sure what the experience was in play testing, but it does seem like an unnecessary gift to wizards in combat.
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Old 09-25-2018, 09:29 AM   #50
platimus
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
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Default Re: New Staff to-hit roll using IQ! (serious balance problem, no?)

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Originally Posted by Shadekeep View Post
Yah, I think my vote has to be for "DX to hit" across the board. Anything else just bollocks up the system. As a software coder, I can tell you that hardcoding special rules for exceptional cases is a quick way to ruin the integrity of the system as a whole.
Having some experience with that myself, I agree...and writing rules for this sort of stuff is very much like writing computer code. But I really liked Chris Goodwin's suggestion and think that makes it more acceptable. Not sure if that's enough though. Much easier to "code" it as a normal DX-based attack.

Last edited by platimus; 09-25-2018 at 09:33 AM.
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