Steve Jackson Games - Site Navigation
Home General Info Follow Us Search Illuminator Store Forums What's New Other Games Ogre GURPS Munchkin Our Games: Home

Go Back   Steve Jackson Games Forums > Roleplaying > The Fantasy Trip

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 07-14-2018, 09:04 AM   #41
tbeard1999
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Tyler, Texas
Default Re: Advanced Combat Skills

Gents, the purpose of the thread is to evaluate Steve’s proposed new rules. I respectfully suggest that sets of completely alternate rules be put in another thread to avoid cluttering this thread with off-topic posts. Of course, there’s some gray area when making suggestions for specific tweaks, but I think everyone can figure it out.
tbeard1999 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-14-2018, 09:15 AM   #42
tbeard1999
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Tyler, Texas
Default Re: Advanced Combat Skills

“Cord, he who is chosen to find and defeat Zetan must have the ability to bind an elephant with the web of a spider. Not stun him with a kick.” - The Blind Man, to Cord the Unbeliever, “Circle of Iron”
tbeard1999 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-14-2018, 09:41 AM   #43
tbeard1999
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Tyler, Texas
Default Re: Advanced Combat Skills

A starting character who insists on taking UC V can take ST 8, DX 12 and IQ 12. Per AM:21, he will do 3-4 with punches and 4-4(?) with kicks. He’ll be -3 to hit and will stop 4 points of damage.

I think that’s a little strong for a starting character.

The martial artist outclasses a starting ST12, DX12(10) IQ8 fighter with broadsword small shield and leather armor. The martial artist stops 4 hits and hits 50% of the time for ~6.5 points of damage and has movement of 10. The fighter stops 3 points of damage, hits 16% of the time and moves 8.

On the other hand a starting fighter can take ST11 DX9 IQ12 and get Sword Mastery talent. He’ll hit with adjDX 11 and do 2-1 with a shortsword or adjDX9 and do 3+1 damage. He’s also -3 to hit, but stops no damage.

I think the fighter would lose >50% of fights with the martial artist. However, it would be a LONG fight, since the martial artist will hit the fighter about 33% of the time and the fighter will hit the martial artist about 25% of the time.

I suggest a modest adjDX requirement to use the advanced UC and weapon talents so that (a) beginning PCs won’t be over-powerful and (b) folks with advanced talents will be able to hit each other a fair a int of the time.

Edit - thanks zot for pointing out that the talents already have DX prerequisites. I still think that these should be adjusted DX prerequisites.

Last edited by tbeard1999; 07-14-2018 at 12:13 PM. Reason: I’m an illiterate who didn’t read the original post.
tbeard1999 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-14-2018, 09:41 AM   #44
tbeard1999
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Tyler, Texas
Default Re: Advanced Combat Skills

The new limit in additional attribute points has implications for building these talents. If you’re going to make a fighter spend 4 points on IQ (an otherwise useless stat in combat), the advanced talents will need to be powerful enough to get him to consider taking them in lieu of 4 additional points of ST and DX.

That means these talents will look overpowered in comparison to classic TFT talents.

If I were designing TFT, I think I’d reduce the IQ requirements dramatically, and weaken the talents accordingly. However, I’ll defer to Steve and assume he has considered and rejected that approach for valid reasons.
tbeard1999 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-14-2018, 09:58 AM   #45
zot
 
Join Date: May 2018
Default Re: Advanced Combat Skills

Quote:
Originally Posted by tbeard1999 View Post
A starting character who insists on taking UC V can take ST 10, DX 10 and IQ 12. Per AM:21, he will do 3-3 with punches and 4-3(?) with kicks. Heíll be -3 to hit and will stop 4 points of damage.

I think thatís a little strong for a starting character. I suggest that you impose a modest DX requirement - say DX 11 or 12 for UCV.
i think there's already a DX 12 requirement for UC V
zot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-14-2018, 10:02 AM   #46
zot
 
Join Date: May 2018
Default Re: Advanced Combat Skills

One important question:

Are bare-hand damages remaining the same?
zot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-14-2018, 10:15 AM   #47
zot
 
Join Date: May 2018
Default Re: Advanced Combat Skills

Quote:
Originally Posted by tbeard1999 View Post
A starting character who insists on taking UC V can take ST 10, DX 10 and IQ 12. Per AM:21, he will do 3-3 with punches and 4-3(?) with kicks. Heíll be -3 to hit and will stop 4 points of damage.

I think thatís a little strong for a starting character. I suggest that you impose a modest DX requirement - say DX 11 or 12 for UCV.
Quote:
Originally Posted by zot View Post
i think there's already a DX 12 requirement for UC V
The fact that starting UC V characters are 8-12-12 is no coincidence, I'm guessing... :)
zot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-14-2018, 10:31 AM   #48
larsdangly
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Default Re: Advanced Combat Skills

I concur with the analyses above that the proposed UC talents are either too powerful or have too low prerequisites. It should not be possible construct a 32 point martial artist who blows the doors off a standard 32 point fighter armed with sharp weapons. A good rule of thumb for evaluating these sorts of 'character build' issues is to compute the expected value for damage done, protection, and turns till you get murdered for each character type. It is pretty easy once you understand such algorithms, and it quickly reveals unbalanced equipment and talents.
larsdangly is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-14-2018, 10:41 AM   #49
tbeard1999
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Tyler, Texas
Default Re: Advanced Combat Skills

Quote:
Originally Posted by zot View Post
i think there's already a DX 12 requirement for UC V
Fixed; I missed it clean. Thanks.
tbeard1999 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-14-2018, 11:08 AM   #50
Steve Jackson
President and EIC
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Default Re: Advanced Combat Skills

Thank you, everyone. Partial comments - because I have 5 pages right ow to print out and highlight.

JLV - it was a typo. Fixed. UC III = 1 hit, IV = 2.

celjabba - errors fixed. Thanks.

Rich - 9 memory slots, and the abilities of the new talent replace the old rather than stacking. This is now explicit.

"All attacks" Bad Steve. "All hand weapon attacks." What I mean is melee attacks but that is not a defined term.

Chris - Absolutely it needs testing. That's what I'm hoping to elicit here - can't do it all myself. Simulated testing via silicon demon has been suggested by some, and that might be useful too.

More later. Starting a separate thread for a possible Brawling talent.
Steve Jackson is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Fnords are Off
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 03:45 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.