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[JLV]

Originally Posted by Steve Jackson

Ah, right, the Dunham article. Well-written, well-thought-out, and solved some problems by turning it into D&D :)

That was exactly my first thought on the whole thing too. If I wanted to do that, I just would have stuck with D&D in the first place.

[Chris Rice]

Originally Posted by JLV

That was exactly my first thought on the whole thing too. If I wanted to do that, I just would have stuck with D&D in the first place.

I didn't stop playing D&D because it had 6 attributes. I stopped playing it because the rules were clunky, often didn't make sense, there was no properly developed tactical system, etc. Are you seriously averse to this idea because of a coincidence in the number of attributes?

[Chris Rice]

In any case, even the rules as they stand at the moment subdivide the Attributes: Strength governs 4 discrete things, and DEX and INT govern 3 each; that's actually a total of 10 attributes although they are represented by just 3 numbers. ITL pages 8-9.

[JLV]

Originally Posted by Chris Rice

I didn't stop playing D&D because it had 6 attributes. I stopped playing it because the rules were clunky, often didn't make sense, there was no properly developed tactical system, etc. Are you seriously averse to this idea because of a coincidence in the number of attributes?

No, actually my problem goes back to something that Guy mentioned over on the Fantasy Trip web page:

"The Fantasy Trip came along at a time where the prevailing thought among designers was to break down the simulation of a person into a lot of fine bits. The idea was that the finer the distinctions between the capabilities of two individuals, the more detail the simulation provided and the better the game environment."

I always found those finer gradations to be both arbitrary and somewhat irrelevant. I liked TFT because it cut to the chase, focused on the important issues, and made combat, magic, and everything else nice and simple. Bringing those finer gradations back into the system, to my mind, simply complicates the game unnecessarily without adding much in the realm of playability to the system. Keep in mind, that's how I feel about it; YMMV!

I know that you and I strongly disagree over this issue conceptually, but I do want to assure you I'm not saying you "did it wrong;" but rather, "that's not the game I personally want to play, here." I hope we can simply agree to disagree on this particular issue, while still respecting each other's enthusiasm for the subject!

[zot]

Originally Posted by JLV

No, actually my problem goes back to something that Guy mentioned over on the Fantasy Trip web page:

"The Fantasy Trip came along at a time where the prevailing thought among designers was to break down the simulation of a person into a lot of fine bits. The idea was that the finer the distinctions between the capabilities of two individuals, the more detail the simulation provided and the better the game environment."

I always found those finer gradations to be both arbitrary and somewhat irrelevant. I liked TFT because it cut to the chase, focused on the important issues, and made combat, magic, and everything else nice and simple. Bringing those finer gradations back into the system, to my mind, simply complicates the game unnecessarily without adding much in the realm of playability to the system. Keep in mind, that's how I feel about it; YMMV!

I know that you and I strongly disagree over this issue conceptually, but I do want to assure you I'm not saying you "did it wrong;" but rather, "that's not the game I personally want to play, here." I hope we can simply agree to disagree on this particular issue, while still respecting each other's enthusiasm for the subject!

For us, it was that D&D had so many tables and TFT hardly needed any at all. It was just obviously a superior design.

And that goes TFT compared with just about every other game of its day -- obviously superior design.

I strongly disagree with the "2nd place in most categories" comments in another thread.

[Rick_Smith]

Originally Posted by Steve Jackson

Ah, right, the Dunham article. Well-written, well-thought-out, and solved some problems by turning it into D&D :)

Hi Steve, everyone.
I've just read this article a few minutes ago. Other than the fact that his system and D&D both had six attributes, there is nothing in it which makes TFT more D&D like.

I really do not understand what you meant by this.

Warm regards, Rick.

[tcr25]

Don't know if you're still looking for these, but I ran across this index of products reviewed in White Dwarf's "Open Box" column. Melee was reviewed in White Dwarf #4.