[Magic] Quick and Dirty Enchanting and High Levels of Energy

[Anaraxes]

Originally Posted by scc

No, Recover Energy works no matter what

Dragondog has already quoted the rule that says the mage must rest quietly and cannot Concentrate. To me, that rules out active magic use, like enchanting. Even physical activity prevents Recover Energy. It's certainly not intended by RAW that Recover Energy continues to work "no matter what" the mage is doing.

The Q&D rules already assume that the mages recover their energy completely by the end of the rest hour (50 minutes, actually). Having a pool of mages with 100 energy recovering 100 energy is no different from having a single mage with 10 energy recovering 10 energy. Both teams are fully rested at the end of the day. The only difference is the number of 110-minute cycles needed. "Extra" energy doesn't matter, because everyone rests up fully as it is. The 100 points per hour enchanting rate is a limiting factor, not just the rest period.

I suppose if you wanted, you could rule that a large team, say 20 enchanters with 200 energy, could do 2 consective hours of enchanting, followed by 50 minutes of rest. (Or 1 hour, 25 minutes of rest, 1 hour, 25 rest, as they're expending half the energy each to get to a total of 100. Same thing, more OSHA-compliant on the break schedule.) That gets you 2.82 cycles per day, where each cycle does twice the work of the original model -- so 5.6 equivalent cycles per day instead of 4.4, a 27% speed increase at the cost of doubling the number of mages involved (and thus the cost). Similarly, the 30-person team doing 3 hours on, 50 minutes off, does 2.09 cycles per day, or 6.3 cycle-equivalents, for a 43% speedup for the triple team.

If you want to double the speed for double the mages, you'll have to add the assumption that enchanting is an activity that's inherently highly parallel, so that the team can do 200 points of enchanting per hour instead of 100. That gives them the same duty cycle as the original model, but doing twice the work per day.

[Dragondog]

Originally Posted by scc

Um, what? Where do you get the idea that Recover Energy doesn't work while your enchanting?

GURPS Magic. My first post even had quotes that covered that. The first one explicitly says that you enchant first and rest later. The second quote says under what circumstances you regain FP and casting spells, or enchanting, doesn't count.

[scc]

I've figured out what confused me. The rules for ER on P119 say that it recharges one point every 10 minutes regardless of rest, and I transferred that to Recover Energy, so the problem actually remains.

So, as a result of that any Mage with an ER of at least 6 and a total energy pool of at least 20 energy (FP, ER, one powerstone or manastone, familiar granted FP, the list goes on) can enchant for a minimum of 2 hours assuming a standard enchanting group of 10.

The formula if (Total energy -x)/y, round down. x is equal to 100/number of Mages in circle and y is x-6. If y drops below 6 there's no limit on the hours he can enchant. 2x is minimum total energy required for multiple hours of enchanting

[starslayer]

All energy for quick and dirty enchanting must be available as a single lump at the end of the casting.

If the spell requires 2400 energy that means that you need 2400 energy spread along all contributors in ONE SHOT at the end of the 24 hour casting period.

Originally Posted by GURPS magic page 19

Succeed or fail, all the energy is
spent when the GM rolls the dice.

Emphasis mine.

[Fred Brackin]

Originally Posted by scc

So, as a result of that any Mage with an ER of at least 6 and a total energy pool of at least 20 energy (FP, ER, one powerstone or manastone, familiar granted FP, the list goes on) can enchant for a minimum of 2 hours assuming a standard enchanting group of 10.

If you re-phrase your statement into " A group of 10 Enchanters with 20 pts of energy each can manage one 200 pt Q&D Enchantment that will take 2 hours." you're fine.

However, there is one and only one scheme that will let a mage recover energy while involved in a Q&D. This would be using the FP Regeneration Power which will only be available if the GM wants it to be. You'd need at leas the 50 pt version too.

No form of natural energy recovery (even if enhanced with the Recover Energy Spell) fr natural FP or Energy Reserve will function once he begins a Q&D Ritual. He ahs to be present and active for the whole 1 hour (minimum) of the Ritual even if he only spend energy in the last second. That 1 hour (or more) spent participating in the Ritual is not "rest" under any definition.

The time spent between Rituals can be very brief if Paut is consumed or an Apprentice casts Lend Energy but that is avoiding natural recovery all together.

[Nereidalbel]

Originally Posted by Fred Brackin

No form of natural energy recovery (even if enhanced with the Recover Energy Spell) fr natural FP or Energy Reserve will function once he begins a Q&D Ritual.

Not quite. Energy Reserve recovers no matter what you're doing. The only way to stop ER from recovering is if it has a PM, and is hit by a countermeasure.

[starslayer]

Originally Posted by Fred Brackin

If you re-phrase your statement into " A group of 10 Enchanters with 20 pts of energy each can manage one 200 pt Q&D Enchantment that will take 2 hours." you're fine.

However, there is one and only one scheme that will let a mage recover energy while involved in a Q&D. This would be using the FP Regeneration Power which will only be available if the GM wants it to be. You'd need at leas the 50 pt version too.

No form of natural energy recovery (even if enhanced with the Recover Energy Spell) fr natural FP or Energy Reserve will function once he begins a Q&D Ritual. He ahs to be present and active for the whole 1 hour (minimum) of the Ritual even if he only spend energy in the last second. That 1 hour (or more) spent participating in the Ritual is not "rest" under any definition.

The time spent between Rituals can be very brief if Paut is consumed or an Apprentice casts Lend Energy but that is avoiding natural recovery all together.

Do you have a source for 'energy recovery stops while you are doing a Q&D ritual'?

In theory if you had 10 casters donating 10 energy each with some way to recover FP during a one hour period regardless of activity level, then they can.

1. Work on their first enchantment for one hour.
2. Loose ten energy each, and finish the enchantment.
3. Launch into the next enchantment immediately before they recover
4. Recover their lost ten energy during the next hour (again this has to be something that works while they are doing strenuous activity)
5. Loose ten energy each, and finish the enchantment.
6. Repeat 3-5 as often as they wish (well ignoring rolls to resist hunger, sleep, etc).

Now there's no stacking- at no point in time can ten casters with ten energy each somehow work a 200 energy enchantment (see my previous post), but in theory if they have a way to recover DURING the casting they can start 'not full' and get there while they are working.

[spacemonkey]

Originally Posted by scc

Does anyone else agree with this interruption of the rules?

Thanks for the chuckle.

[David Johnston2]

Originally Posted by scc

I've figured out what confused me. The rules for ER on P119 say that it recharges one point every 10 minutes regardless of rest, and I transferred that to Recover Energy, so the problem actually remains.

Or you can just hang out in a Very High Mana area and crank out the enchantments right up until you miss a roll.

[Fred Brackin]

Originally Posted by Nereidalbel

Not quite. Energy Reserve recovers no matter what you're doing. The only way to stop ER from recovering is if it has a PM, and is hit by a countermeasure.

Ah, misread the relevant quote. It appears that Energy reserve does regain 6 FP per hour regardless of rest. I've never had anyone use it in my games. Apologies for the confusion.

So going to Powers for the original source I see that the Recover energy Spell does work on Energy Reserve Magical. However, that Spell still only works while resting. It says so in the Spell description.

So this Energy Reserve loophole will not fuel all 10 pts of this back-to-back 1 hour Q&D ritual scheme though the old tried and true thing about having an apprentice and taking just a few seconds between Rituals to have him cast Lend Energy will.

More valuable might be having 12 natural FP, 12 pts of Energy Reserve (Magical) and Recover Energy at level 15. Then you can rest an hour so you can recharge both. That way you can contribute 24 pts per Ritual and still only rest an hour between Rituals.

You still can not rest while participating in a Ritual. You can't even Maintain Spells that require Concentration while resting. Participating in a ritual is activity and not rest even if you don't spend the FP until the last second.