GURPS Overhaul - Content Posts

[Kalzazz]

Ah. I consider being able to step and retreat on a GURPS turn to be pretty vital . . . . but I guess I could tweak if I decided to use

It may just be I'm extremely inept at math, but for me I needed to jot a few notes down to work through this. I'm not sure whether I could see using this as seems like might be a major drag. . . but I really like the idea!

[Varyon]

Originally Posted by Kalzazz

Ah. I consider being able to step and retreat on a GURPS turn to be pretty vital . . . . but I guess I could tweak if I decided to use

Fair enough. Simply turning the free Step or Retreat into a Step and Retreat works just as well. Alternatively, reducing the costs of most of the actions to 5/9 rather than 6/10 would give you an extra 2 MP for that Retreat, and would also mean that choosing to forgo the Retreat (or a Step, you still get one free) would give you an extra 2 MP to do with as you wished.

Originally Posted by Kalzazz

It may just be I'm extremely inept at math, but for me I needed to jot a few notes down to work through this. I'm not sure whether I could see using this as seems like might be a major drag. . . but I really like the idea!

Most of my Overhauls assume notes, actually - essentially, I'd expect character sheets to include the character's base MP (including the bonus from Dodge), Melee MP, and Ranged MP, as well as what the character's skills and defenses are when only spending 6 MP on them.

If you want to avoid such, I'll note that a lot of the complication comes from my desire to give characters with high skills a reason to go All Out (a side effect was to make characters with high ranged combat skills harder to hit in ranged combat). If you're fine with a character with skill 20 getting only a +4 to hit and half Move from All Out Attack (the default for GURPS; my system would likely give that character a +10 and half move, more if he had Combat Reflexes, high Dodge, etc), things become a lot easier - prices are the same, but everyone has 20 MP across the board (no bonuses for Dodge or high skills) and the 6 MP levels simply give skill at -4, defense at -2.

Actually, come to think of it, it might be possible to combine that simplicity with my intended effects. You'd lose the ability to go almost-All-Out (you go from -4 to hit to not being able to attack, or from -2 to defenses to not being able to defend, regardless of skill level), but if we instead did the above, but then noted the MP the character gains by forgoing an attack or defense, we maintain everything else. I'll give it some thought on how to write it, then probably make a new post - Combat Posture, Simplified.

(Note this is a big part of why I like posting my ideas - the discussion almost always results in improvements like this)

[Kalzazz]

Anyway, an example character, Donna (short for Belladonna) is a Seelie Knight of the Court of Kansas City, and she has Rapier 26, speed 7, combat reflexes, and Enhanced Parry Rapier 3

Donna's favorite move is an all out, extra effort attack named 'Attack that Ends the Battle' (it sounds better in Arcadian).

AtEtB goes All Out Attack Determined for +4 to skill, 1 FP for Flurry of Blows to reduce rapid strike for 1 to -1, so Feint at skill 29, followed by swing for skull -7 at deceptive for -3 at 16

Using Combat Posture, what happens? 20 base, +4 for dodge 11, 15 melee MP for attack 26 parry 20

She isn't defending or moving, she's making an all out attack

Spend 6 for attack 16, 10 for 26, 10 more for 36
Spend 2 MP for the -3 of Rapid Strike, 4 MP for -4 of swing to skull. Soooo . . . feint at 36, swing for skull at deceptive -8 for 17?

And she still has 7 MP left . . . . not sure what good it does her

Am I doing this right?

[Varyon]

Originally Posted by Kalzazz

Anyway, an example character, Donna (short for Belladonna) is a Seelie Knight of the Court of Kansas City, and she has Rapier 26, speed 7, combat reflexes, and Enhanced Parry Rapier 3

Donna's favorite move is an all out, extra effort attack named 'Attack that Ends the Battle' (it sounds better in Arcadian).

AtEtB goes All Out Attack Determined for +4 to skill, 1 FP for Flurry of Blows to reduce rapid strike for 1 to -1, so Feint at skill 29, followed by swing for skull -7 at deceptive for -3 at 16

Using Combat Posture, what happens? 20 base, +4 for dodge 11, 15 melee MP for attack 26 parry 20

She isn't defending or moving, she's making an all out attack

Spend 6 for attack 16, 10 for 26, 10 more for 36
Spend 2 MP for the -3 of Rapid Strike, 4 MP for -4 of swing to skull. Soooo . . . feint at 36, swing for skull at deceptive -8 for 17?

And she still has 7 MP left . . . . not sure what good it does her

Am I doing this right?

Very nearly right. For the simplified version, she has 20 MP, and gains 4 general MP (for Dodge) and 9 melee MP (for Parry) for opting not to defend. She isn't spending any MP on things that Melee MP don't allow, so that's a budget of 33 MP.

She spends 10 MP to attack at full skill. If she were just feinting, she could reduce this to 7 (for no damage), but the fact she's adding in an attack prevents that. She's taking a -3 for Rapid Strike (I assume this means she has Weapon Master), which costs 2 MP to negate. She drops the Skull penalty from -7 to -3 for another 3 MP (the better exchange rate also works for targeted attacks). She has Rapier at +12 relative to the assumed base of 14, so she can get up to +6 more than the default (+4), for a total of +10 for 10 MP. That's 25 of her MP spent, with 8 left. She's got a few options of what she could do with those 8 MP. Assuming she doesn't need any movement (AtEtB would allow her to go up to half Move normally, which would leave her with 2 MP remaining), might as well spend it on damage - that's good enough for +4, or +2/die, whichever is better (if she opted for half Move, it would only be +1, or +0.5/die, whichever is better). If using The Last Gasp, she could instead spend those 8 MP to get an HT+2 roll to recover, likely negating the AP lost from the attack. If she opted to invest 1 FP in the attack, as she would normally, that would give her and extra 4 MP, boosting damage to +3/die (just shy of x2 damage).

This leaves her at Feint 36, attack 32. She could reliable take a -16 to hit, for skill 16 and a -8 to her foe's defenses (on top of any penalty from Feint). Attack that Ends the Battle indeed.


Yes, Combat Posture results in her being better off with an All Out Attack than the normal rules would. That's part of the point. As it stands, she has the choice of what you've suggested - 1 FP, Feint 29, Attack 16, -3 to target's defenses, lose all defenses - or 1 FP, Feint 25, Attack 16, -1 to target's defenses, retain the ability to Parry at 20 (23 on a Retreat). Unless I had a character with On the Edge or similar, I certainly know I'd choose a slightly lower chance of hitting the target in order to have a much better chance of not dying if I fail. With Combat Posture, the choice isn't as clear. Going All Out means 1 FP, Feint 36, Attack 16,+3/die to damage, -8 to target's defenses, lose all defenses. Going normal would be 1 FP (spend 2 MP to negate -3 of Rapid Strike, 2 MP to drop Skull from -7 to -4), Feint 26, Attack 16, -3 to target's defenses, maintain the ability to Parry at 20 (23 on a Retreat). In that case, I'd actually be strongly tempted to go All Out.

[Kalzazz]

Well she does have Overconfident, and she reserves this attack until only 1 enemy remains

It has so far 100% success rate at ending battles, either it drops the enemy, or she gets herself annihilated by their counter if it doesn't work

[Kalzazz]

And yeah, she has Weapon Master, sorry wasn't explicit

[Varyon]

A new post is up - Combat Posture, Simplified. I made a few minor changes while I was at it, but for the most part this is the same thing as seen with Integration, but with Melee/Ranged CP handled in a much better way.

[Wavefunction]

Another way of simplifying it might be to do away with the idea of a pool of MP that can be spent in different ways and instead remain closer to the standard. You have an Action, a Defense, and some Movement (usually just a Step) each turn. Rather than have a fixed pool, you earn MP by taking penalties to a roll, to damage, etc. or by giving up those actions entirely. That MP can then be redistributed to other things, increased damage, increased hit chance, etc.

Arguably too similar to the classic system to be considered a true 'Overhaul' but might be easier to implement for some? I certainly think I'd find it a little overwhelming to be presented with 20 points to spend each turn, starting with 0, then gaining some by taking penalties, and spending them for bonuses feels like it'd be easier.

As a side note, it'd be interesting to see if you could do away with multiple roles with this system. I.e. rather than roll several times to do multiple attacks, you instead spend MP for an additional attack and make a single roll, or likewise for defence. Might work well for very fast paced games.

[Varyon]

Originally Posted by Wavefunction

Another way of simplifying it might be to do away with the idea of a pool of MP that can be spent in different ways and instead remain closer to the standard. You have an Action, a Defense, and some Movement (usually just a Step) each turn. Rather than have a fixed pool, you earn MP by taking penalties to a roll, to damage, etc. or by giving up those actions entirely. That MP can then be redistributed to other things, increased damage, increased hit chance, etc.

If you read the entire first post, you may notice that the system actually started out much like this. I opted to go with MP because I preferred that paradigm. It has also lent itself to something else, which I'm working on a blog post for currently (probably won't be published today, but you never know).

Originally Posted by Wavefunction

As a side note, it'd be interesting to see if you could do away with multiple roles with this system. I.e. rather than roll several times to do multiple attacks, you instead spend MP for an additional attack and make a single roll, or likewise for defence. Might work well for very fast paced games.

That's something that would be doable without Combat Posture, actually. Rolling twice at the same skill level and managing at least one success is roughly equivalent to rolling once at +2. Rolling twice at the same skill level and managing two successes is roughly equivalent to rolling once at -2. Three is around +3, four is +4, and so forth (technically, it starts slowing down, but this probably works out alright). With that in mind, resolving 2 attacks with one roll is +2 to hit, Rcl 4. 3 attacks is +3 to hit, Rcl 3. 4 attacks is +4 to hit, Rcl 3 (actually, more like Rcl 8/3). I'd be tempted to just simplify it to +1 to hit per attack, Rcl 3. To do it with MP, it's simply a cost of 4 MP per additional attack (to negate the -6 for Rapid Strike; note this is only 2 MP for characters with Trained by a Master or Weapon Master).

[Wavefunction]

Originally Posted by Varyon

If you read the entire first post, you may notice that the system actually started out much like this. I opted to go with MP because I preferred that paradigm. It has also lent itself to something else, which I'm working on a blog post for currently (probably won't be published today, but you never know).

Oh, I did read the entire post, I'm just throwing out there that this is a solid alternative system that may be simpler to implement.

Originally Posted by Varyon

That's something that would be doable without Combat Posture, actually. Rolling twice at the same skill level and managing at least one success is roughly equivalent to rolling once at +2. Rolling twice at the same skill level and managing two successes is roughly equivalent to rolling once at -2. Three is around +3, four is +4, and so forth (technically, it starts slowing down, but this probably works out alright). With that in mind, resolving 2 attacks with one roll is +2 to hit, Rcl 4. 3 attacks is +3 to hit, Rcl 3. 4 attacks is +4 to hit, Rcl 3 (actually, more like Rcl 8/3). I'd be tempted to just simplify it to +1 to hit per attack, Rcl 3. To do it with MP, it's simply a cost of 4 MP per additional attack (to negate the -6 for Rapid Strike; note this is only 2 MP for characters with Trained by a Master or Weapon Master).

Yeah, that sounds fairly reasonable.