Steve Jackson Games - Site Navigation
Home General Info Follow Us Search Illuminator Store Forums What's New Other Games Ogre GURPS Munchkin Our Games: Home

Go Back   Steve Jackson Games Forums > Roleplaying > GURPS

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 06-07-2020, 06:19 AM   #31
Michael Cule
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Default Re: [Basic] Disadvantage of the Week: Truthfulness

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ulzgoroth View Post
To be fair, breaking into the Death Star's brig almost certainly qualifies as illegal.
Yes, but to get all Obnoxious Personal Virtue over that you need Honesty and not Truthfulness.

And the reason that not tolerating lies in others is often seen as a pain is because lying is often seen as useful in criminal enterprises and like Malcolm Reynolds a lot of player characters 'aim to misbehave'.

Roger! I can feel a podcast segment coming on: Is Michael The Baddie?

And to be fair to my Paladin character he is always up front about attacking evil doers. He just has to pray to his god to check they are evil first and doesn't like being the one to do the lying to get us into the critter's lair.
__________________
Michael Cule,
Genius for Hire,
Gaming Dinosaur Second Class
Michael Cule is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-07-2020, 06:44 AM   #32
ericthered
Hero of Democracy
 
ericthered's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: far from the ocean
Default Re: [Basic] Disadvantage of the Week: Truthfulness

I'm thinking about games I've played in the past few years.

Monster Hunters. I don't think Truthfulness is viable there, even for a holy warrior. The secret is just too big of a deal.

Roman Politics Game. Even if everything you say is true, you need the ability to conceal information while still talking about things related to it. I suppose some of our more straitforward players could have gone for it, but even though the players were mostly honest and sincere folks, there was a lot of subtly withheld information.

Lost in Dreams. You could have truthfulness here, but its going to get you into a fair amount of trouble, because the premise of the game is waking up naked in places you don't understand and where you don't belong. Its really nice to be able to lie in that game. Actually, its probably a good place to run a truthful character, but no-one has ever sprung for one, and I've had well over a dozen accepted characters.

Various Police Games. The Police find themselves frequently lying and withholding information in my games. Its very useful when manipulating criminals. There are usually rules about what you can and can't lie about, but police dramas are famous for shell games with suspected criminals, and that's one thing players love to try their hand at.
__________________
Be helpful, not pedantic

Worlds Beyond Earth -- my blog

Check out the PbP forum! If you don't see a game you'd like, ask me about making one!
ericthered is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-07-2020, 07:51 AM   #33
Phil Masters
 
Phil Masters's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: U.K.
Default Re: [Basic] Disadvantage of the Week: Truthfulness

Quote:
Originally Posted by ericthered View Post
Fast-talk isn't really about how fast you can literally talk. Luis talks quickly, and he manages to make it charming, but he's unable to quickly come up with words to make you think one thing rather than another, or even to intentional point your mind in one direction or another.
Yeah, fair enough — but with my inspired-by-Luis character, well, Fast Talk is pretty much the only social skill he has, and it’s usually resisted, so he really wants to be competent at it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ericthered View Post
Monster Hunters. I don't think Truthfulness is viable there, even for a holy warrior. The secret is just too big of a deal.
Whereas our Monster Hunters game is set in Florida (or maybe rather Florida!), so even if my character didn’t bury the truth under a landslide of blather, it would probably be buried under the rest of the ambient insanity.
__________________
--
Phil Masters
My Home Page.
My Self-Publications: On Warehouse 23 and On DriveThruRPG.
Phil Masters is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-07-2020, 07:51 AM   #34
Ulzgoroth
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Default Re: [Basic] Disadvantage of the Week: Truthfulness

Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Cule View Post
Yes, but to get all Obnoxious Personal Virtue over that you need Honesty and not Truthfulness.

And the reason that not tolerating lies in others is often seen as a pain is because lying is often seen as useful in criminal enterprises and like Malcolm Reynolds a lot of player characters 'aim to misbehave'.

Roger! I can feel a podcast segment coming on: Is Michael The Baddie?

And to be fair to my Paladin character he is always up front about attacking evil doers. He just has to pray to his god to check they are evil first and doesn't like being the one to do the lying to get us into the critter's lair.
The 'reason' for actively clashing with party members doesn't actually matter very much to the result of aggravating fellow players who didn't come for a PvP campaign... but yes, not tolerating lies is seen as a pain because lying tends to be useful for player characters.

Which last bit is of course also why Truthfulness is a fairly substantial disadvantage rather than a quirk.
__________________
I don't know any 3e, so there is no chance that I am talking about 3e rules by accident.
Ulzgoroth is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-07-2020, 05:27 PM   #35
Rupert
 
Rupert's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Wellington, NZ
Default Re: [Basic] Disadvantage of the Week: Truthfulness

Truthfulness says nothing about having a problem with other people lying. It doesn't even say that the character that has it dislikes lying. All it says is that they are bad at it, possibly because they don't like lying.

However, for those people saying "have someone else do it" or "be silent" - it does require a self-control roll to avoid blurting out the truth. So as a fake stormtrooper, it'd be a self-control roll to say "None of your business" and nothing else, and one at -5 to say "Here for a routine inspection".
__________________
Rupert Boleyn

"A pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history."
Rupert is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-07-2020, 07:49 PM   #36
Not another shrubbery
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Default Re: [Basic] Disadvantage of the Week: Truthfulness

We found early on that Truthfulness was a bear to get around with a typical adventuring party of murder hoboes. We tried, once, to build a party around the trait, with the idea of working up to a positive rep for the group, but that game didn't last long enough for the goal to be fully achieved. I still like using it for NPCs, and the characters I build just for fun.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil Masters View Post
Whereas our Monster Hunters game is set in Florida (or maybe rather Florida!), so even if my character didn’t bury the truth under a landslide of blather, it would probably be buried under the rest of the ambient insanity.
Yeah, Florida's a great place to set a Grimm style campaign.

HC SVNT DRACONES

Last edited by Not another shrubbery; 06-07-2020 at 08:01 PM.
Not another shrubbery is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-07-2020, 09:38 PM   #37
Flyndaran
Untagged
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Forest Grove, Beaverton, Oregon
Default Re: [Basic] Disadvantage of the Week: Truthfulness

Heck with dragons. Florida has Florida Man. If every there was a "real life" enemy suitable for Monster Hunters, it is he.
__________________
Beware, poor communication skills. No offense intended. If offended, it just means that I failed my writing skill check.
Flyndaran is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-08-2020, 11:57 AM   #38
jason taylor
 
jason taylor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Portland, Oregon
Default Re: [Basic] Disadvantage of the Week: Truthfulness

Quote:
Originally Posted by dcarson View Post
Less chance and less violent then "Breaking in to free a prisoner" will. None of you business will at first get you dressed down for insubordination.
It depends on where you are. If you continue trying to get in to a secure facility in a reasonably open society the sentry will probably block you and call for More Important People Than Him. At least in peacetime. On the Death Star he might shoot you. Just for fun. A guy's gotta have some entertainment after all.
__________________
"The navy could probably win a war without coffee but would prefer not to try"-Samuel Eliot Morrison
jason taylor is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-09-2020, 02:41 AM   #39
RogerBW
 
RogerBW's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: near London, UK
Default Re: [Basic] Disadvantage of the Week: Truthfulness

Quote:
Originally Posted by Flyndaran View Post
Heck with dragons. Florida has Florida Man. If every there was a "real life" enemy suitable for Monster Hunters, it is he.
"Man shot by homeowner says he broke into house because the dinosaurs were after him". I mean, that's an adventure right there.

Back on topic, though, I've met people who genuinely believe that it's absolutely fine to lie by omission but that to say an untrue thing is a terrible sin. That's presumably covered by a Vow. Could the general case be too? Does this need explicit rules and its own disadvantage entry?

I've used this on several pregen PCs but not I think in my own characters. When I was running a space-traders game in the very early 4e days, the captain took it, which meant negotiation was somewhat restricted ("no, I really don't want to pay that much" rather than "I can't afford it", but he could still threaten to walk away if he was actually prepared to do so).
RogerBW is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-09-2020, 07:11 AM   #40
ericthered
Hero of Democracy
 
ericthered's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: far from the ocean
Default Re: [Basic] Disadvantage of the Week: Truthfulness

Quote:
Originally Posted by Celjabba View Post
There is a serious difference between "must tell truth" and "cannot tell an untruth"

But may i ask how you get to the -5 price ?
I don't have a good answer on that. I think I've seen others use it and it feels right.
__________________
Be helpful, not pedantic

Worlds Beyond Earth -- my blog

Check out the PbP forum! If you don't see a game you'd like, ask me about making one!
ericthered is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
disadvantage of the week, truthfulness

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Fnords are Off
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 09:45 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.