Durable Fighters [Martial Arts]

[AlexanderHowl]

When we consider durable fighters in the context of Martial Arts, we generally mean individuals who possess some form of DR (Tough Skin, -40%). In Martial Arts, even realistic fighters are capable of purchasing multiple levels of DR (Tough Skin, -40%) through purchasing Unusual Training multiple times, though anything beyond five levels defies any sense of realism. Cinematic fighters can purchase even higher levels of DR (Tough Skin, -40%) (or even better forms of DR), but anything beyond fifty levels gives diminishing returns in anything but a crossover Supers campaign.

My question is what are the limits for durable fighters in your campaigns? For example, I allow up to DR 5 (Tough Skin, -40%) in my realistic campaigns, as long as the characters have purchased five levels of Unusual Training as combat perks. In my cinematic campaigns, anyone with a Gunslinger, Heroic Archer, Trained by a Master, or Weapon Master can purchase up to DR (Tough Skin, -40%) without any special traits. In addition, they may purchase an additional DR 5 (Tough Skin, -40%) through taking five levels of Unusual Training as combat perks and may take up to an addition ten levels of DR (Tough Skin, -40%) per level in the Body Control Talent. Of course, every GM has their own limits, and I would like the hear yours.

[Plane]

Crushing-Only is one limitation I could see there, and the first level is super-important in avoiding the minimum 1 damage you get from Roll-With Blow.

I can't remember if you round fractions up or down, like if halved 3 crushing 1.5 becomes 1 or 2.

[MrFix]

I think the suggested realistic limit is 2-3 DR, otherwise they start shrugging off pistol bullets and arrows.

I personally am in the camp of buying up HP instead. HP grows with ST, meaning that your melee fighter should already have a good score, it increases tresholds for all things related to Major Wounds, knockdown, unconsciousness, death too.

Even better, at certain breakpoints (20 HP off the top of my head), you heal TWICE the damage in the same timeframe as 10 HP character, so while they nurse 2 bullet wounds, you can safely nurse 4 in the same time. First-Aid is also twice as effective, not to mention Rapid Healing.

20 HP is realistic-ish I believe and constitutes a very bulky fighter, somebody who might even have Overweight.

I fought melee against 22 HP sumo guy, and my 1d+2 baton literally could not cripple his limbs until I got lucky with a hit on his hand.

[NineDaysDead]

Originally Posted by AlexanderHowl

When we consider durable fighters in the context of Martial Arts, we generally mean individuals who possess some form of DR (Tough Skin, -40%). In Martial Arts, even realistic fighters are capable of purchasing multiple levels of DR (Tough Skin, -40%) through purchasing Unusual Training multiple times, though anything beyond five levels defies any sense of realism.

Uh, what? Source please?

Originally Posted by Martial Arts Page 43

Suitably limited Damage Resistance fits many kinds of cinematic campaigns.
...
Tough Skin: The GM may let really tough guys buy DR (Limited, Crushing, -40%; Tough Skin, -40%) [1/level]
...
Outside of superhero games, DR 1-2 is probably enough unless it’s Ablative.

[AlexanderHowl]

You can purchase Unusual Training (DR [Tough Skin, -40%]) as a realistic combat perk. The styles of Kajukenbo, Karate (Goju Ryo), Karate (Kyokushin), Shaolin Kung Fu, and Wrestling (Professional Wrestling) all offer Unusual Training (DR 1 with Tough Skin). There is no particular reason (other than potential silliness) that they could not stack, though it is up to the GM.

[Fred Brackin]

Originally Posted by MrFix

20 HP is realistic-ish I believe and constitutes a very bulky fighter, somebody who might even have Overweight.

20 HP is vanilla Basic Set as long as the character has at least ST16 i.e. 16 + 30% is 20.8 and +30% HP (or FP) is the limit from the Basic Set.

It's a good trick and I've used it for strong fighter types.

If you go with Sumo Style and Special Exercises big guys (mimimum 255 and 340 lbs) can get HP +50% and +100% of ST. Probably nothing awful happens (in Cinematic games) if you allow this for other styles that frequently see huge guys.

As for DR (Tough Skin) I'd go with 1 level (and maybe with Crushing Only too) in realistic games. They allow 3 levels in DF but that's pretty automatically a Cinematic game. Anything higher is for superhumans.

With real HP at 2pts/level any sort of limited form like Ablative for 1pt/level just doesn't look like a good deal.

[Fred Brackin]

Originally Posted by AlexanderHowl

You can purchase Unusual Training (DR [Tough Skin, -40%]) as a realistic combat perk. The styles of Kajukenbo, Karate (Goju Ryo), Karate (Kyokushin), Shaolin Kung Fu, and Wrestling (Professional Wrestling) all offer Unusual Training (DR 1 with Tough Skin). There is no particular reason (other than potential silliness) that they could not stack, though it is up to the GM.

Boxing offers it too but I'd never let them stack in a realistic game. DR 5 (Tough Skin) lets you ignore buckshot.

[NineDaysDead]

Originally Posted by AlexanderHowl

You can purchase Unusual Training (DR [Tough Skin, -40%]) as a realistic combat perk.

Source for it being "Realistic"? And source for up to 5 levels being "Realistic"? I quoted where it says 1-2 is the max outside of supers games.

Originally Posted by AlexanderHowl

The styles of Kajukenbo, Karate (Goju Ryo), Karate (Kyokushin), Shaolin Kung Fu, and Wrestling (Professional Wrestling) all offer Unusual Training (DR 1 with Tough Skin).

It says you can buy it, where does it say it's "Realistic" as opposed to "Cinematic"?

Originally Posted by AlexanderHowl

There is no particular reason (other than potential silliness) that they could not stack, though it is up to the GM.

I'm not suggesting that mechanically it can't stack, I'm suggesting that it doesn't qualify as "Realistic".

[NineDaysDead]

Originally Posted by Fred Brackin

As for DR (Tough Skin) I'd go with 1 level (and maybe with Crushing Only too) in realistic games.

I might allow DR (Crushing Only -40%; Tough Skin -40%) in a realistic game, but I'd probably be asking for high ST and HT scores for that, for someone built like a Elephant.

Originally Posted by Fred Brackin

They allow 3 levels in DF but that's pretty automatically a Cinematic game.

I'd consider allowing more, but DF is about as "Realistic" as D&D.

[Verjigorm]

One of my favorites for durability is high HP, High HT and Hard to Subdue. Sure, you take a lot of damage...but you DONT GIVE UP until you're dead.