[Basic] Disadvantage of the Week: Unfit and Very Unfit

[Plane]

Originally Posted by Otaku

Do the 4e rules allow you to cast Lend Energy on yourself? O_o

B248 doesn't say you can't or anything. At face value there just doesn't usually seem much of a reason (though I am liking the idea of using it to adapt to being Very Unfit). A pair of wizard buddies could do that for each other, so why not also for yourself?

Prior to the introduction of ER in Powers (ie spend your ER to regain your FP) one option I could see in Basic Set would be if you had sources of energy other than FP that you wanted to use to replenish your own FP, like burning HP.

Another good use might be using Ceremonial Casting, since then you could have other people contribute FP which you then give to replenish your personal stores.

Another might be if you had FP (Granted by Familiar) and you used that "sometimes available" FP to replenish your "always available" FP during moments you have access to a familiar.

Or if you were casting it via a Powerstone from GURPS Magic.

Also: for using in Very High Mana to replenish your stores.

[Gef]

I have used (Very) Unfit often as a Temporary Disadvantage limitation. I like it better than Costs FP in certain circumstances, like for Winged Flight or Doesn't Breathe (Gills), for characters - supers or fantasy races - who can operate in other environments but find it more tiring than walking about on land. Costs FP would cap the activity at 10 minutes or so, whereas Very Unfit imposes no cap for just lounging underwater (or gliding) but drains FP fast when swimming (or flapping).

EDIT: In the case or a racial template, I'd express this as Fitness -1 or -2. So for instance, if a Frog-Goblin has Doesn't Breathe (Gills, TD: Fitness -2) and he were Fit, then he'd be treated as Unfit (instead of Very Unfit) while breathing water.

[Otaku]

Originally Posted by Plane

B248 doesn't say you can't or anything.

Right, but this is the kind of thing, were I the GM and a player said they wanted to do it, where I would need the rules to expressly state it was permitted. ;)

[Plane]

Originally Posted by Otaku

Right, but this is the kind of thing, were I the GM and a player said they wanted to do it, where I would need the rules to expressly state it was permitted. ;)

If it seemed broken you could invoke the spirit of the skill penalty from missing HP to do a skill penalty from missing FP. Or maybe a combined penalty of the total of BOTH missing.

[Ultraviolet]

Originally Posted by coronatiger

Consider this idea stolen

Seconded.
That is a handy way to penalize a character suffering from something nasty picked up on an adventure. It's a common gag to use this as a deterrent or threat. In my Cliffhangers campaign it will always be named some kind of "-rot" by a certain player.
Last time it was Zombie Rot, and I really wish I had used Unfit as a side effect!

But oitherwise, I can't think of anyone having ever used it, nor wanted it.
I currently only play GURPS in the Cliffhangers campaign, and Unfit would be really, really annoying - and perhaps dangerous.
Come to think of it, several characters may even be Fit as it is.

[Otaku]

Originally Posted by Plane

If it seemed broken you could invoke the spirit of the skill penalty from missing HP to do a skill penalty from missing FP. Or maybe a combined penalty of the total of BOTH missing.

Or I could just rule that the Spell wasn't intended to work that way, since that is how I read the text anyway. ;)

This is all a board hypothetical. You do have to know and cast the Lend Energy Spell (and most mages will, as it is a prerequisite for Recover Strength). So that means rolling for it... and wouldn't it be embarrassing to roll a critical failure because you just couldn't wait an extra 20 or so minutes to keep resting? XD

I should also add that I don't know if I like how Fit, Very Fit, Unfit, and Very Unfit draw a distinction between FP for "mundane exertion" and for casting spells, using super powers, etc. Which wouldn't be a problem if we could break them down into their components. I mean, is that that weird to maybe want the FP-recovery penalty or the selective-HT roll penalty? Or have the the FP-recovery penalty apply to all FP loss?

[WingedKagouti]

Originally Posted by Otaku

I should also add that I don't know if I like how Fit, Very Fit, Unfit, and Very Unfit draw a distinction between FP for "mundane exertion" and for casting spells, using super powers, etc.

I believe the distinction between the FP usage types is down to not wanting to have mages want to be top athletes (Fit/Very Fit) to be efficient. As I understand things, Very Fit halving FP loss was also viewed as notably problematic in the context of the default magic system by the writers/editors.

[Plane]

Originally Posted by Otaku

You do have to know and cast the Lend Energy Spell (and most mages will, as it is a prerequisite for Recover Strength).

I think that was the 3E name back when FP was based on ST right? Changed to Recover Energy in 4E.

Originally Posted by Otaku

So that means rolling for it... and wouldn't it be embarrassing to roll a critical failure because you just couldn't wait an extra 20 or so minutes to keep resting? XD

Yes, and that's why I like it, it sounds fun. It would make down-time for mages potentially a little more interesting.

"hey Badalf just meditate stop accidentally summoning demons because you'd rather send out your mana trying to get back more, rather than just passively sucking it in like you ought to!" (ie since you don't actually ROLL for Recover Energy and risk anything)

Although I actually like the idea of rolling for RE, just ONCE (when you initiate the meditation) and then you just have to maintain concentration for an hour or whatever without making more rolls. Whereas LE would be a new roll every attempt, so more risk of crit fails while brute-forcing to try and get crit successes.

Originally Posted by Otaku

I should also add that I don't know if I like how Fit, Very Fit, Unfit, and Very Unfit draw a distinction between FP for "mundane exertion" and for casting spells, using super powers, etc.

It definitely requires a lot more book-keeping since you need to tally "FP lost to my spells" and "FP lost to running" and similar.

Extra-special book-keeping crunchy fun if you're also using Hyperdivided Magery from Fantasy ("FP lost to Fireball, FP lost to Lightning Bolt")

I also have no clue how Lend Energy interacts with Divided Magery. Like if you have an ally restoring your FP can you specify "hey friend, please restore the FP designated for fire college spells, not FP designated for necromancy" and if that were possible, then you could in theory use that as a workaround for having re-arrangeable magery without paying points for it and being much faster than taking Preparation Required.

Restructurale Magery using Preparation Required seems odd too since it sounds more like Immediate Preparation Required introduced in PU8

[Otaku]

Originally Posted by WingedKagouti

I believe the distinction between the FP usage types is down to not wanting to have mages want to be top athletes (Fit/Very Fit) to be efficient. As I understand things, Very Fit halving FP loss was also viewed as notably problematic in the context of the default magic system by the writers/editors.

Excellent points.

I'd still love to see how these traits break down into their individual components, if anyone has it handy. If not, then I need to remember to try and work it out myself sometime.

Originally Posted by Plane

I think that was the 3E name back when FP was based on ST right? Changed to Recover Energy in 4E.

Probably. The last time I ran... well... anyone in GURPS, was under the Third Edition (Revised) rules. The TL;DR is that I've either lacked the time or lacked a group to play in at least 15 years. ^^'

Originally Posted by Plane

Yes, and that's why I like it, it sounds fun. It would make down-time for mages potentially a little more interesting.

"hey Badalf just meditate stop accidentally summoning demons because you'd rather send out your mana trying to get back more, rather than just passively sucking it in like you ought to!" (ie since you don't actually ROLL for Recover Energy and risk anything)

Although I actually like the idea of rolling for RE, just ONCE (when you initiate the meditation) and then you just have to maintain concentration for an hour or whatever without making more rolls. Whereas LE would be a new roll every attempt, so more risk of crit fails while brute-forcing to try and get crit successes.

Now if you'd initially pitched it that way, I'd have probably gotten a big GM grin on my face. You know that one; it makes all the other player's nervous. ;)

You did remind me; I don't think I had Unfit or Very Unfit for the character, but I did have a mage that actually liked doing as much as he could to make his life easier via magic. Considering it was a campaign with no cap on Disadvantages, perhaps I ought to have, since he had enough spells that losing mundane FP wasn't too common... for the all of half-session I got to run him. Sadly, the GM was nearing burnout.

Originally Posted by Plane

It definitely requires a lot more book-keeping since you need to tally "FP lost to my spells" and "FP lost to running" and similar.

True, but FP is like that. I mean, if you're experiencing it from enough sources. Starvation FP loss isn't sleep deprivation FP loss isn't spell-casting FP loss isn't exertion FP loss...

[Plane]

Originally Posted by Otaku

True, but FP is like that. I mean, if you're experiencing it from enough sources. Starvation FP loss isn't sleep deprivation FP loss isn't spell-casting FP loss isn't exertion FP loss...

I guess it's no different than tracking damage differently in case you get buffed later with regeneration limited only to heal only certain damage types...

Or tracking HP from certain attacks w/ Symptoms...