Jumper (Interplanar) question

[Thamior]

So, in the description of Jumper (World) it is said that you appear on a parallel world as close as possible to the corresponding location on your source world. This assumes that these parallel worlds are nearly identical in topography. But what about interplanar jump where the plane you travel to may be quite different? For example Plane of fire in D&D cosmology. Where do you end up? In a random spot? Or your jump just fails if you don't also have Warp enhancement and knowledge of your exact destination?

[ericthered]

Originally Posted by Thamior

Or your jump just fails if you don't also have Warp enhancement and knowledge of your exact destination?

I would never run it that way, not without some sort of limitation on Jumper.



The RAW way is probably to have a mapping between parts of the world, even if the transition isn't smooth. For example, On Yrth Megalos probably corresponds to Western Europe and al-Wazif to the Fertile Cresent, despite Megalos being North-East of al-Wazif. The elemental plane of fire has a zone where travellers from each nation show up. The important thing is that going from a place in one world sends you back to the same place in the other.



Other options are possible too. I think the important limitation is that you can't really control where on the other plane you end up.

[David Johnston2]

Originally Posted by Thamior

So, in the description of Jumper (World) it is said that you appear on a parallel world as close as possible to the corresponding location on your source world. This assumes that these parallel worlds are nearly identical in topography. But what about interplanar jump where the plane you travel to may be quite different? For example Plane of fire in D&D cosmology. Where do you end up??

Anywhere the GM wants you the first time.

However.

If you jump from the same place again, you will end up in the same bit of the Plane of Fire because it has been established that this bit of the Plane of Fire corresponds to that origin poin.

[Thamior]

Thanks for the input guys. I checked how D&D version of Jumper, i.e. Plane Shift and Gate, work.

From the Material Plane, you can reach any other plane, though you appear 5 to 500 miles (5d%) from your intended destination.

It is assumed you must know where exactly you're headed on the destination plane. Not exactly demands you to visit this place beforehand. I guess it's safe to assume you could hear a geographical description and it would be enough.
So to simulate this in GURPS I would add New Worlds and Warp Jump enhancements. This means it will be necessary to add Warp but limit it to Jumper use. Also Blind enhancement for Warp.
And lastly for Plane Shift (but not Gate) a stronger version of Drift limitation is needed (10 miles vs 500 miles).
What do you think?

[Fred Brackin]

Originally Posted by Thamior

This means it will be necessary to add Warp but limit it to Jumper use. Also Blind enhancement for Warp.
And lastly for Plane Shift (but not Gate) a stronger version of Drift limitation is needed (10 miles vs 500 miles).
What do you think?

I think you'd have diffculties figuring penalties for Warp.

The frst one applies to any two planes that aren't geograpjically congruent. There's no way to determine distances for Warp. You could scrape by for Earth to Yrth because even though Yrth has different continents it has the same stars but for the Plane of Fire there aren't even stars or any other landmarks.

It gets weirder for planes that are infinte but amorphuous whcih applies to a number of D&D-type places. Gurps doesn't ahve native rules for the Plane of Fire but it generally treats the Inner Astral Plane this way.

As a suggestion, if you have Jumper without linked Warp you aways end up at some sort of "neutral" entrance. For the Plane of Fire this would probably be the "border". You'd then crposs the border and proceed across the Plane in the "normal" way for that Plane.

If someone on the Plane had a Named Beacon (see the Gate College in Gurps Magic) and you knew that Name you could go directly there. Definitely with a Plane Shift Spell and probably with Jumper.

Using Warp with Jumper (or just Warp alone) on these infinite but amorphuos Planes the probalem is that all "places" are equally hard or equally easy to get to. I'd assess a "standard" penalty for that Plane but let such a Warp take you wherever you wanted. I suggest in the vicinity of -10.

[Thamior]

Originally Posted by Fred Brackin

I think you'd have diffculties figuring penalties for Warp.

The frst one applies to any two planes that aren't geograpjically congruent. There's no way to determine distances for Warp. You could scrape by for Earth to Yrth because even though Yrth has different continents it has the same stars but for the Plane of Fire there aren't even stars or any other landmarks.

It gets weirder for planes that are infinte but amorphuous whcih applies to a number of D&D-type places. Gurps doesn't ahve native rules for the Plane of Fire but it generally treats the Inner Astral Plane this way.

As a suggestion, if you have Jumper without linked Warp you aways end up at some sort of "neutral" entrance. For the Plane of Fire this would probably be the "border". You'd then crposs the border and proceed across the Plane in the "normal" way for that Plane.

If someone on the Plane had a Named Beacon (see the Gate College in Gurps Magic) and you knew that Name you could go directly there. Definitely with a Plane Shift Spell and probably with Jumper.

Using Warp with Jumper (or just Warp alone) on these infinite but amorphuos Planes the probalem is that all "places" are equally hard or equally easy to get to. I'd assess a "standard" penalty for that Plane but let such a Warp take you wherever you wanted. I suggest in the vicinity of -10.

Good points. I just wanted to stress part of the description of Warp Jump

When you jump, you can simultaneously use Warp to appear anywhere at your destination.

Not exactly sure what is meant here. If I'm reading the description of Jumper correctly "destination" means the whole world/plane. There is also "place" within "destination". This leads me to assume that in this situation when Jumper and Warp work in pair distance is irrelevant.

[Fred Brackin]

Originally Posted by Thamior

This leads me to assume that in this situation when Jumper and Warp work in pair distance is irrelevant.

Not if you're talking about two versions of Earth or some other pairs. Then you count Warp distance normally.

[Anaraxes]

If Jumper alone allowed the Jumper to pick a location anywhere in the destination plane, then Warp would be redundant, included by default in Jumper. (From point A in the source plane, Jump to another plane, doesn't matter where, though an experienced Jumper probably knows a safe spot; immediately Jump back to the original plane, choosing location B. Net effect, Warp from A to B.)

Since correspondences between planes is going to vary with different settings, so too will the method for calculating distance for Warp purposes if you're trying to do a simultaneous Jump / Warp. All Jumpers might arrive at one or a few portal anchor points; there might be some correspondence between source and destination planes (if known only to the GM); Jumping might be so chaotic there is no predictable or reproducible relationship between source point and destination point.

Regardless, it doesn't make sense to talk about a Warp distance between source and destination on different planes when a Jump is involved. Those two points aren't even in the same coordinate system (if "plane" has anything like the usual meaning), so the concept of distance between them isn't well-defined.

So, there are two choices for calculating a Warp distance, even if it's folded into a notionally simultaneous Jump. Use the Warp distance between the source and destination-correspondence point in the source plane, or the distance between the source-correspondence and destination point in the destination plane. (Warp then Jump over, or Jump over then Warp, at least as far as the conceptual calculations go.) Pick an order at world design time and just use it consistently. If the setting is at the no-correspondence level of chaos, then the second method is the only one that can apply; there's no way to know what an appropriate correspondence point in the source plane will be to warp to the right spot before the Jump. (The GM might as well just roll a random distance modifier.)