[Vehicles] Self-Propelled Backpack

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by DataPacRat

'We' meaning anyone other than PCs, I assume? :)

"We" being the buying public. Sure, there's things the legged version can do that a wheeled version can't, but there aren't that many things where you'd drop $100k on a Spot (or whatever it costs) instead of $2.5k on a KiwiBot.

[DataPacRat]

Originally Posted by Anthony

"We" being the buying public. Sure, there's things the legged version can do that a wheeled version can't, but there aren't that many things where you'd drop $100k on a Spot (or whatever it costs) instead of $2.5k on a KiwiBot.

How about $10k for a go-bag-bot that can go up stairs (or walls, or ceilings, or...) instead of a $2.5k KiwiBot? :)

Hm... other than the long-standing battle between power cells vs batteries, how many details of the go-bag-bot or the DAN-E mail-bot /aren't/ currently feasible with real world tech? Is it just the suction pads?


(And for some reason, that just reminded me; back in '00 or '01, for a Cyberpunk 2020 game, I imagined the creation of a small company, "DataPacRat's DataPacRats", running small, wheeled delivery robots. Though given the setting, I was thinking of them focusing more on delivering secure offline data-storage rather than Chinese food. I'm pretty sure I used GURPS Vehicles to stat the things out.)

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by DataPacRat

How about $10k for a go-bag-bot that can go up stairs (or walls, or ceilings, or...) instead of a $2.5k KiwiBot? :)

The smaller the price differential, the larger the possible market, though it probably wouldn't be actually common among the general population until it dropped below $1k.

Originally Posted by DataPacRat

Hm... other than the long-standing battle between power cells vs batteries, how many details of the go-bag-bot or the DAN-E mail-bot /aren't/ currently feasible with real world tech? Is it just the suction pads?

Also speed, walker robots are doing pretty well to manage 3 mph. Plus the AI situation is still dubious though getting better pretty fast. And transformation, while technically possible to some limited degree, is horribly inefficient.

[DataPacRat]

Originally Posted by Anthony

Also speed, walker robots are doing pretty well to manage 3 mph.

Didn't Boston Dynamics manage a cheetah-bot that hit 20 mph? (Checks Wikipedia) Ah, 28 mph. And the Wall-E reskin gets its speed from tracks rather than leg-motion.

Plus the AI situation is still dubious though getting better pretty fast.

Given that we have examples of nonlinear, sudden increases in AI capability - eg, see AlphaGo and its relatives - it seems within reason to posit another such jump or two.

(As it is, I have a sneaking suspicion that various Three-Letter Agencies have taken the AlphaGo approach, started by applying it to Avalon Hill style hex-board wargames, and by now have further versions thinking hard about more complicated socioeconopolitical simulations. The main evidence I have against that is, well, a whole bunch of current-day politics that's probably best not discussed on this subforum.)

And transformation, while technically possible to some limited degree, is horribly inefficient.

Some larger RVs have extendible/retractable bits, which add some extra interior space when they're parked; it may be 'inefficient', but seems plausibly parallel to a Wall-E pulling its tracks inside.


Now that my attention has been focused on the design again, I'm thinking about how a Wall-E knockoff could be useful to a zero-g Vacuum Cleaner PC. I suspect the 2-cf modular socket might be the key; I could put together a module each for a zero-G thruster, a power bank (likely with a RTG), one with lots of G:Robots' arm-mounted toolkits, one full of sensors, and one for emergencies and first-aid. It wouldn't be great at all of them at once, but might be a better bargain than getting a specialized bot for each task. Hm... I might also want to stat out a 'generic everyday stuff' module, too, for when specialization isn't necessary... though that might just be the toolkit one.


Random thought: I wonder if it'd make sense to hit up Pyramid3 #s 52 and 96 for the custom-tailored armor design systems, and see if I can figure out what sort of design of clothes a very boxy robot might be able to wear...


Another random thought: I was just looking at Vehicles' entry on modular sockets, and noticed that there's no minimum size. Which, after another pageflip, made me think of this complete silliness: "Modular Socket (capacity 0 cf, 5 lbs): $0. Module (Cycle Seat, 0 cf, 5 lbs): $50*1.2=$60." ... has it really taken all these years for me to realize the Vehicles system already has a price for adding saddles to robots? :)

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by DataPacRat

Some larger RVs have extendible/retractable bits, which add some extra interior space when they're parked; it may be 'inefficient', but seems plausibly parallel to a Wall-E pulling its tracks inside.

Oh, there's no question that you can design folding components. It's just that folding components are heavier, more expensive, and less reliable than the non-folding variant.

Originally Posted by DataPacRat

Another random thought: I was just looking at Vehicles' entry on modular sockets, and noticed that there's no minimum size. Which, after another pageflip, made me think of this complete silliness: "Modular Socket (capacity 0 cf, 5 lbs): $0. Module (Cycle Seat, 0 cf, 5 lbs): $50*1.2=$60." ... has it really taken all these years for me to realize the Vehicles system already has a price for adding saddles to robots? :)

Basically, the robot has screws and a mounting bracket on its top that you can attach a seat to. Entirely possible, though I think you rapidly change from 'luggage that I can sit on" to "go-cart that can follow me about when I'm not using it".

[DataPacRat]

Originally Posted by Anthony

Basically, the robot has screws and a mounting bracket on its top that you can attach a seat to. Entirely possible, though I think you rapidly change from 'luggage that I can sit on" to "go-cart that can follow me about when I'm not using it".

And now I'm thinking about that Samurai Jack episode, "Jack and the Labyrinth", where the white-suited thief had a suitcase that served as a machine gun, flashlight, blowtorch, bulletproof shield, and moped (presumably among other tricks).


Here are a few quick sketches of some modules to replace the trash-compactor. I should probably stick a mini thruster in any module with space for one, since Vacuum Cleaners spend so much time in freefall; but I haven't settled on any given module's full contents yet. I also kinda want to drop the Engineering module down to 3 arms, which gives -1 to all the toolkits' tasks, and throw in an E-cell and 5 lbs of minor stuff; mostly because not using Power Cells really puts a crimp in how much endurance any 'bot has. (Though shutting off the tracks and their power-drain does help a lot with that.)

* Modify DAN-E for zero-G repair work
- suction-cups on legs (to cling to walls/etc in freefall): $1k
? High-Security Burglar Alarm: $3k
? Liquid Crystal Skin, 27.5 cf: 5.5 lbs, $1100
- "Saddle": Modular Socket, capacity 0 cf, 5 lbs: $0
-- Module, Cycle Seat: 5 lbs, $50*1.2=$60
? CBW coating (UT2p76): $100

* Modules (not including *1.2 cost) (30s to remove, 60s to install):

- Thruster Module A
- "Horizon Drive" (TL9 reactionless thruster), 30 lb thrust: 30 lbs, 0.6 cf, 15 kW, $750
- Advanced Batteries, 3 rE-cells: 60 lbs, 0.6 cf, $60. 54,000 kJ (1h)
- Transponder: 2.5 lbs, 0.05 cf, $500
- cargo space, 0.75 cf, up to 7.5 lbs

- Thruster Module B
- Chemical rocket, KO, thr 30 lb: 0.36 lb, 0.0072 cf, 33 gal/h, $9
- Fuel tank, 13.2 gal, self-sealing: 13.2 lbs, 1.98 cf, $132 (24min)
-- KO fuel, 13.2 gallons: 112.2 lbs, $13.20

- Power Module
- Radiothermal Generator, 1 kW: 50 lbs, 0.5 cf, $2500, 14 years
- Advanced Batteries, 2 rE-cells: 40 lbs, 0.4 cf, $40. 36,000 kJ
- Basic Radiation Sensor: 0.5 lb, 0.025 cf, $25
- cargo space: 1.075 cf, up to 9.5 lbs
- total 90.5 lbs, $2,573

- Engineering Module:
- 4 arms, ST 10, retractable: 12 lbs, 0.24 cf, $24k;
- 4 toolkits (engineer): 40 lbs, 0.8 cf, $800;
- 4 toolkits (mechanical): 40 lbs, 0.8 cf, $800;
- 4 toolkits (electronics): 8 lbs, 0.16 cf, $1600
- total 100 lbs, 2 cf, $27,200

- Sensor Module
- AESA, range 1 mile: 3 lb, 0.06 cf, $5k, 0.25 kW
- PESA, range 0.25 miles: 1 lb, 0.02 cf, $4k
- Radar/Laser Detector: 0.75 lb, 0.015 cf, $75
- Mini-Flashlight (15' beam): 0.125 lb, 0.005 cf, $4
- Inertial Compass: 1 lb, 0.02 cf, $250
- Basic Radiation Sensor: 0.5 lb, 0.025 cf, $25
- Advanced Radiation Sensor: 25 lb, 0.5 cf, $12,500
- Laser Chemscanner, range 1,000 yards: 4 lb, 0.08 cf, $2k
- Magnetometer: 5 lb, 0.1 cf, $5k
- T-Ray Imager, range 17.6 yards: 5 lbs, 0.1 cf, $5k
- Bug Detector (UTp90): 1 lb, ~0.02 cf $500
- Nanoscanner (UT2p26): 2 lbs, ~0.04 cf, $500
- Directional Transceiver (UT2p40): 0.5 lbs, 0.01 cf, $100
- Voice-Print Analyzer (UT2p81,UTp89): 0.5 lb, 0.01 cf, $100
- Facial Scanner (2-foot range) (UT2p81,UTp89), 4 lbs, 0.08 cf, $1k
- cargo space: 0.935 cf, up to 46.625 lbs
- total: 53.375 lbs, $36,054

- Emergency first-aid module:
- 4 arms, ST 10, retractable: 12 lbs, 0.24 cf, $24k;
-- 4 medical tools: 8 lbs, 0.16 cf, $4k
- Mini Fire-Extinguisher (1 use): 0.125 lb, 0.005 cf, $5
- Emergency Lights & Siren, $50
- Limited Life System, 0.25 man-days: 37.5 lbs, 0.75 cf, $125, 0.5 kW
- Provisions, 0.25 man-days: 0.5 lbs, 0.01 cf, $1.50
- Detachable Air Mask (10 minutes internal air, $150) and rebreather (x10 duration, $200) (UTp24-5): 3 lbs, ~0.05 cf, $350.
- Enviro-Bubble and inflator (UTp23): $800, 5 lbs, ~0.1 cf
- Decontamination Aerosol, 1-use can (UTp79): 1.5 lbs, ~0.03 cf, $30
- Emergency Medkit (UTp94): 1 lb, ~0.02 cf, $300
- Neurovine, 1 dose: $30
- Mini Life Jacket: 2 lbs, ~0.04 cf, $20?
- X-Ray Scanner (UTp91): 4 lbs, ~0.08 cf, $2k
- Drug Analyzer (UT2p88): 0.5 lb, ~0.01 cf, $400
- Basic Radiation Sensor: 0.5 lb, 0.025 cf, $25
- cargo space: 0.64 cf, up to 32.375 lbs
- total: 67.625 lbs, $30,136.50

[doctorevilbrain]

Why does the sensor module have both a basic radiation and advanced radiation sensor? It just seems redundant.

[DataPacRat]

Originally Posted by doctorevilbrain

Why does the sensor module have both a basic radiation and advanced radiation sensor? It just seems redundant.

Mainly because I thoughtlessly hit 'ctrl-c' instead of 'ctrl-x' just before pasting it into the module with the radiothermal generator. <ahem>

[DataPacRat]

A current discussion: whether it makes more sense (both in-universe and narratively) to spend $180k on a THS cyberdoc and $64k on a Tenzan THI-200bis techspider... or about $60k apiece for Wall-E-based designs, one for med, one for tech & tools, and one for sensory stuff; saving around $60k. (Presumably sticking to the modular approach, so that if anything goes with any one frame, the others can swap to its module as needed.)

For example, it would be entirely plausible that, around 20 years earlier in-setting, with lots of modern-day shows long out of copyright, there was a minor fad for instantiating old popular-media robots as cybershells; and now they're out of fashion, there's plenty to be found cluttering up the junkyards, for the sort of person willing to pay less for old tech and fix it up themselves.


Say, is there anything in THS or GURPS 4e about discounting prices for earlier-TL tech? The Wall-E reskins are mostly TL8 tech, which might allow for even better savings in the mostly-TL10 setting in question. UltraTech p14 mentions that tech from 2 TLs earlier gets +1 to LC, but that's not quite the same thing. I could swear I remember something about TL-differential pricing, but can't seem to find a reference.

[Anthony]

It's generally a poor idea to try and compare things from two different design systems; if you want to get a sensible comparison you should design the cyberdoc and the techspider using Vehicles (cybershell prices are not based on Vehicles; compare a RATS to a combat cybershell designed with vehicles).