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Old 04-30-2020, 07:46 PM   #1
InexplicableVic
 
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Default Magic Staff - Can it have a metal endcap?

So you can cast Lightning Weapon on it? My guess is no.

Spells states that "A magic staff is a rod-shaped piece of once-living matter (e.g., wood, bone, ivory, or coral) imbued with the power to extend a caster’s reach for spellcasting." (GURPS Magic essentially says the same thing).

That wording at least implies that it can't be wholly made of metal, but I'm guessing it can't have any metal on it.

Although not applicable to DFRPG per se, I do note that GURPS Fantasy-Tech 2: Weapons of Fantasy says, "An inescapable downside of a full-metal weapon is that it isn’t organic and therefore cannot be the subject of the Staff spell." That also leads me to conclude it's a no go. Again, though, that only mentions full-metal weapons. Still...my guess is that it is designed that way [no metal at all] for game balance purposes.

Thoughts?
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Old 04-30-2020, 09:24 PM   #2
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Default Re: Magic Staff - Can it have a metal endcap?

The book you quote does note "full-metal" as a problem, suggesting that partially metal would be OK. But that's just an interpretation. (It would also suggest that an axe or halberd or anything with a wooden shaft could become a magic staff!)

I'd answer your question with "sure, go ahead", in the interest of making players happy. But I don't know whether it's officially kosher.

As a tangent to your question, I kind of like the idea that the three types of spellcasters would each favor a separate kind of magic staff. Druids would definitely go for the organic staffs. Wizards could have the option of inorganic materials like crystal or metal; to me that goes well with all their elemental and electrical magic, as well as concepts of wizards wielding swords instead of staffs. Metal weapon acting as magic staff, charged with Lightning Weapon? That says "wizard" to me! (Unless, of course, the GM is going for the old-school "wizardly magic and iron don't mix" trope.)

But clerical . . . I don't know, nothing comes to my mind as a special staff material that clerics would favor. Any material, as long as it's blessed or contains a holy relic or whatever makes a cleric's staff magic, I guess.
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Old 05-01-2020, 01:55 AM   #3
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Default Re: Magic Staff - Can it have a metal endcap?

Two fold answer
First - can it have metal. I would rule yes, up to the point where it becomes something other than a "staff". IE a spear tip isnt much metal really, but *I* wouldnt allow it because it is literally a different weapon and no longer a staff. Staff Sling on the other hand I would allow, because its a staff and the sling function doesnt require metal.

Second - Clerics. This is a different thing that *I* would rule related more to the deity/power they derive their spells from rather than the wizard rules. Unless the deity/power just grants them access to magic as a "wizard" (in which case I would treat them as a normal magic user), I would say Clerics should have some guidance as to a favored weapon or class of weapons. Examples: Hephaestus - God of Fire and Forge, I would allow a priest to use a large hammer or something like a sword breaker, in offensive combat. A monk might not be martial at all, or be limited to a staff or cudgel. Sikh devotees carry a sword. Druids are natural world, not nature priest to me, thus I allow all natural materials (including iron), just limiting crafting techniques.
Not all religions/deities/powers restrict a devotee from martial prowess or fighting, even initiating disputes. This leave a GM a huge amount of grey area to use as you see fit.

Ultimately neither of these interpretations is deal breaking for a world IMO. If you allow a caster to use "Staff spell" on a Halberd that's your business and I don't see it as world breaking considering the other requirements of the weapon. Allow them to use it on a spear, dont see why not. Maybe just make it cost more or require special metal etc... In worlds where you have special metals that take enchantment more readily (3E Atlantis as one example) I have often wondered why the metal focus item on a wizards staff couldnt be generally tapered with a point :) Is it practical for a spell caster to have a spear? Could you play the ol Gandalf "but you wouldnt take an old mans walking stick" if its got a spear tip? Its not so much world breaking as it is difficult to resolve with a "Fantasy trope" view of what a magic user looks like.
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Old 05-01-2020, 09:58 AM   #4
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Default Re: Magic Staff - Can it have a metal endcap?

I see zero reason to forbid metal affixed to a magic staff. To quote Spells, p. 9, the basic object must be:
[...] a rod-shaped piece of once-living matter [...] up to two yards in length [...]
Those same rules go on to say:
Old-school magic-workers favor magic staffs as power items[. They] add as much value as they can afford in the form of carvings, fetishes, gems, precious metal inlay, etc.
Pay special attention to the parts I've made bold! You can add as much other junk as you can afford, including metal, to the once-living rod. I see no reason to forbid a knob, blade, or spike of metal as long as it actually adds value. Were I the GM, my only requirement would be that the final price be sufficiently greater than the initial price that – were the staff a power item – it could hold at least 1 FP more than before. This would be to keep wizards from just adding a $0.01 finishing nail to benefit from things that require metal . . .

Combat skill has no bearing on the discussion. I can use a short baton with Knife of Shortsword, a jo with Broadsword or Staff, a quarterstaff with Staff or Two-Handed Sword, etc. That doesn't change whether a wooden stick of reach C, 1, or 2 can be a magic staff . . . of course it can!

Collectively, I think all of that would legitimize a spear or polearm as a magic staff, as long as it had no more than reach 2, which would rule out only long spears, full-sized glaives and halberds, pikes, etc. Of course, that would also mean no claiming the weapon isn't wooden when that would be inconvenient, such as against fire (including Flaming Weapon) or magic that warps or shapes wood (like Shape Plant); hafted weapons have wooden hafts by definition.
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Old 05-01-2020, 10:51 AM   #5
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Default Re: Magic Staff - Can it have a metal endcap?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kromm View Post
I see zero reason to forbid metal affixed to a magic staff.

...

Collectively, I think all of that would legitimize a spear or polearm as a magic staff, as long as it had no more than reach 2, which would rule out only long spears, full-sized glaives and halberds, pikes, etc. Of course, that would also mean no claiming the weapon isn't wooden when that would be inconvenient, such as against fire (including Flaming Weapon) or magic that warps or shapes wood (like Shape Plant); hafted weapons have wooden hafts by definition.
Thanks for the response, Kromm! I could see it going either way, and wasn't sure if there was some kind of game-balance reason that would forbid it. It pretty much only allows for Lightning Weapon, which is cool (Flaming Weapon is still verboten...)
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Old 05-01-2020, 10:55 AM   #6
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Default Re: Magic Staff - Can it have a metal endcap?

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Originally Posted by Spartan506 View Post

Thanks for the response, Kromm! I could see it going either way, and wasn't sure if there was some kind of game-balance reason that would forbid it. It pretty much only allows for Lightning Weapon, which is cool (Flaming Weapon is still verboten...)
Unless you find some sort of magical, fireproof wood. ;)
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Old 05-01-2020, 10:59 AM   #7
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Default Re: Magic Staff - Can it have a metal endcap?

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Originally Posted by Kromm View Post
Unless you find some sort of magical, fireproof wood. ;)
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Old 05-01-2020, 11:11 AM   #8
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Default Re: Magic Staff - Can it have a metal endcap?

Wood isn’t the only option. Bone, such as the bones of a fire aspected creature like a dragon would be good for flaming weapon. You cloud also have a group sea dwellers (or high TL biotech) cultivate coral weapons of any design that can accept the staff enchantment.
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Old 05-01-2020, 12:38 PM   #9
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Default Re: Magic Staff - Can it have a metal endcap?

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Originally Posted by Kromm View Post
Unless you find some sort of magical, fireproof wood. ;)
Well, as written wooden weapons turn to ash whether or not they're fireproof. However, the rules are silent on organic materials that are not wood.

Or you can cast flesh to stone (metal) on a convenient living object. I suggest bamboo, that gets you a convenient hollow metal pipe (fortunately, flesh to stone doesn't say it only works on animals, just living creatures), though wizards with a taste for the gruesome might want to figure out using people.
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Old 05-01-2020, 02:13 PM   #10
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Default Re: Magic Staff - Can it have a metal endcap?

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Originally Posted by Imbicatus View Post

Wood isn’t the only option. Bone, such as the bones of a fire aspected creature like a dragon would be good for flaming weapon. You cloud also have a group sea dwellers (or high TL biotech) cultivate coral weapons of any design that can accept the staff enchantment.
I mostly agree, though for that I'd want to have something resembling a formal weapon modifier that makes such things very, very expensive. Just letting people say, "No, my halberd-staff is dragon bone, not wood, so it won't burn" is probably cheesy. Make 'em pay for it. ;)
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