GURPS - Space Opera?

[Refplace]

I think something like Zombies Day One has potential, a GMs guide on various tropes that focuses on what to use fir certain types has even more.

[trooper6]

Originally Posted by weby

Now that gurps traveller is no more and vorsigan saga is kind of one shot that has not been fixed or followed up some other scifi option than transhuman space would be good. Basically transhuman space fills the hard scifi role well, but there is nolonger a good super science scifi system.

If you want Space Opera, Tales of the Solar Patrol will do it for you, no? Have you read it yet?
http://w23.sjgames.com/products/gurp...e-solar-patrol

[Phantasm]

I've been working on my own space opera setting for a while. Smaller in scope than many, slightly larger in scope than Babylon 5.

A lot of Star Wars inspiration, a dollop of Babylon 5 inspiration, a sprinkling of Star Trek, and a dash of classic Battlestar Galactica.

Just browsing my inspirations shows a lot of variation in the term "space opera".

Perhaps what we need is not a Space Opera book, but an Action! book oriented for Action! games in space....

[mehrkat]

I actually had an inspiration for an action series.

Action: Genres

Such titles as
Cyberpunk
Several Spacey ones
Psionics (how to take the current Action series and make psionics fit in it well with the flavor you want)
1920s

It would be a book about how to alter the templates for those genres. Choices within the genre.
Suggestions about how to use current equipment books to equip the characters but with enough information to take a stab at it without owning each book in the series.

Anyone more competent than I feel free to nab the idea and I will gladly surrender it.

[weby]

Originally Posted by trooper6

If you want Space Opera, Tales of the Solar Patrol will do it for you, no? Have you read it yet?
http://w23.sjgames.com/products/gurp...e-solar-patrol

No, I looked at the preview and it all seemed to be the pulp space opera thing and those are... bad.

(Though the preview is unusually short so I may have missed something)

[trooper6]

Originally Posted by weby

No, I looked at the preview and it all seemed to be the pulp space opera thing and those are... bad.

(Though the preview is unusually short so I may have missed something)

Well...this is a thread for Space Opera...so...

[Mr_Sandman]

Originally Posted by weby

No, I looked at the preview and it all seemed to be the pulp space opera thing and those are... bad.

(Though the preview is unusually short so I may have missed something)

You didn't miss anything. Tales of the Solar Patrol is a retro, 1930-1950's pulpy sci-fi setting. The inspirations include Buck Rogers, Forbidden Planet, Lucky Starr, and Heinlein Juveniles.

It's definitely a form of space opera. Some of its inspiration seems to be close to the original, disparaging meaning of the term, which was a formulaic action story with sci-fi trappings, which could just have easily been a western (horse opera), pirate tale, or some other formulaic adventure story, if other trappings had been swapped in.

If you are looking for space opera that encompasses things like the Foundation Trilogy, the Vorkosigan Saga and Star Trek, Tales of the Solar Patrol probably isn't the setting you are looking for. I think you could plausibly get some of the feel of Star Wars with it though.

[tshiggins]

Originally Posted by (E)

While personally I don't consider Star trek or star wars to be space opera. Star wars is science fantasy with some space opera scale thrown in. Star trek is at heart a story telling device for sci fi.

The problem is as Kromm states that Space opera is to wide. So what are the sub genres of space opera? What defines each one?

Those are the key questions, really.

For me, "space opera" means "vast in scale," with a focus on adventure or exploration on a grand scope, highly-advanced beings of Great Cosmic Power who are (nonetheless) interested in puny humanity, monstrously large and powerful space-craft that don't even attempt to adhere to any known physics, exploding planets and exploding stars and interstellar (or even intergalactic) conflict.

To me, a Space Opera is a setting in which you can tell all sorts of stories, really. I agree with Bill that Lensmen is the quintessential example of this genre, but not all space operas tell the same sorts of stories.

Star Trek with its techno-babble technology and vastly powerful cosmic beings is a space opera setting that focuses on stories that talk about human existence and paths of human development, using a framework vaguely based on Plato's Republic.

By comparison, Star Wars is a space opera setting in which to tell stories about myths and mysticism, where no attempt is made to create any sort of coherent technological background because that's not the point.

On the other hand, Pitch Black started out as a space opera setting in which to tell stories about survival and savagery, and then veered into the tyranny of oppressive theocracy (and sort of lost its way), but then (sorta-maybe) veered back on track with Riddick.

Of course, Alien and Aliens take place in a space opera setting in which to tell horror stories and take part in bloody bug-hunts, although Prometheus may take a turn for darkly theological/philosophical stories about the beginning of life.

Both of the Battlestar Galactica series (although, IMO, the second one did it better) was a space opera setting in which to tell military stories about people fleeing from, and fighting for their very survival against, an overwhelmingly powerful enemy.

To me, you pick a space opera setting when you want to tell stories integral to the grand scale of things (Lensmen, Star Trek) or which use the grand scale as a backdrop to contrast and highlight stories about those who have a worm's-eye view of things (Pitch Black).

The problem is, that's a huge range of possible stories, and it would be impossible to cover all of them in a single "Space Opera" book. So, you'd just about have to pick a narrow range of stories to tell, and build the backdrop that allows you to tell them, and hope there are enough people interested in that particular space opera story that you can earn a profit.

2300 AD did exactly that, as did Traveller, and both did reasonably well. Traveller even had different lenses, in that the rules supported not just interstellar trading, but other stuff, too. Star Frontiers had problematic game mechanics, but the setting was pretty cool.

Alternatively, SJGames takes their usual approach and builds a toolkit, and endures the complaints about how much time is needed to build a campaign setting, and the fact you can't just pick it up and get a game going in less than two hours.

For my part, I like to tell stories rife with very human drama and emotion, so if I were to pick a space opera setting as published, I'd go with 2300 AD. I like the political dramas, and the fact that planets have wide-ranging biomes and multiple colonies that sometimes don't get along with one another, and travel-times are so vast, and there's always some place new to discover and the same old human weaknesses that muck things up.

Traveller is probably my second choice, and the only reason I'd play Star Wars is because G&AInc does some fun things with it (despite the fact that, as a campaign setting, it's got a bunch of problems). We also had a guy in the Denver GURPS group who did a military spec ops campaign for Prime Directive, and that was a lot of fun, too, mostly because the group found itself doing dangerous stuff too far away to get much help from (or interference by) Star Fleet.

Were I to do my own setting, I'd do a "Transhuman Stars" hybrid between 2300 AD and Transhuman Space. Keep most of the tech as coherent and as plausible as possible, but use 2300 AD's "slow-ish" FTL and minimalist reactionless travel to throw open the universe (or, at least, the parts of our own galaxy within about 100 light years, or so...) so the players would be the ones making significant decisions, on their own, with minimal outside help (or interference).

[Dammann]

GURPS Aliens: Sparrials has me optimistic that GURPS could just release some original IP items (that will not, therefore, have a license lapse) that can inform and underline a Space Adventure oriented line.

As TBC observes, campaign activities are probably a more constructive way to look at GURPS Space Opera than "does X qualify as Space Opera? is Y too focused on military stuff t qualify?" I can see where a GURPS SO line would have the usual book 1 focused on templates, but instead of book 2 being adventures, book 2 through 8 are all adventures-oriented. Book 2 deals wth bug hunts, book 3 with merchants and smuggling, book 4 with exploration, book 5 with freelance troubleshooters, book 6 with diplomacy and first contact, and so on ad infinitum.

In parallel, the GURPS Aliens series helps grow the player character race list out, supporting all the space adventures books. A plan for supplements could inform the way new Space Atlas books are written, so that they focus on matters of import like what the PCs would do on planets A,B, and C instead of ratios on iron to silica in the mantle- not that science doesn't have a legitimate place in some campaigns, but if there isn't gonna be a GURPS Space Opera Adventures 12: Mining and Extraction, it is a lot of calculation and minutiae that amounts to yak shaving.

If modules/adventures don't sell well, fine: combine the templates and adventuring guides into a single supplement. That means the template books don't have to be as broad, anyway, which might make them easier to create.

[Refplace]

Originally Posted by Dammann

I can see where a GURPS SO line would have the usual book 1 focused on templates, but instead of book 2 being adventures, book 2 through 8 are all adventures-oriented. Book 2 deals wth bug hunts, book 3 with merchants and smuggling, book 4 with exploration, book 5 with freelance troubleshooters, book 6 with diplomacy and first contact, and so on ad infinitum.

In parallel, the GURPS Aliens series helps grow the player character race list out, supporting all the space adventures books. A plan for supplements could inform the way new Space Atlas books are written, so that they focus on matters of import like what the PCs would do on planets A,B, and C instead of ratios on iron to silica in the mantle- not that science doesn't have a legitimate place in some campaigns, but if there isn't gonna be a GURPS Space Opera Adventures 12: Mining and Extraction, it is a lot of calculation and minutiae that amounts to yak shaving.

That sounds like a good idea.
A general broad Space Opera book with ideas on what make good or bad rules for various types.
Additional books that focus on a Niche or type of campaign.
Compatible with Spaceships.
Then add Atlas books (interesting locations) and race books like Sparriels.

Its still pretty much a toolkit but an organic one with good options and can feel like a setting. Would have the support material of a setting without the railroad feel.